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21/11/2011 18:52:32 ‹Erik Mona› LOL
21/11/2011 18:52:34 ‹Russ› Yep! "Drag shitpants, here, away with you". The whole novel's bookended in shit!
21/11/2011 18:52:35 ‹GameMaster's Kip› ALL AUTHORS: Which would you say was more useful in developing your art - a college degree, or writing and sharing your work with your peers and editors?
21/11/2011 18:52:36 ‹Kevin Andrew Murphy› I had the pleasure of working with Zelazny for my first sale to Wild Cards. I borrowed his character, Pan Rudo, and had to get his approval.
21/11/2011 18:52:36 ‹James Sutter› @xellos: Thanks!
21/11/2011 18:52:37 ‹Enlight_bystand› James I must admit the tense in Gambit did seem a bit weird, but after a bit I got used to it, and that story itself was great so it didn't matter that much
21/11/2011 18:52:38 ‹Dave Gross› Howard Andrew Jones: Same here. We're of an age, and I bet our libraries look very similar.
21/11/2011 18:52:47 * Caubo de grace joins PFTales
21/11/2011 18:52:47 ‹Richard Lee Byers› I had to take the F word out of one of my Forgotten Realms novels. It was a monstrous crime against Art.
21/11/2011 18:52:52 ‹Erik Mona› I just checked my office copy, and the first page of "Saga of Old City" actually has Gord saying "Shiteater!", which is even better.
21/11/2011 18:53:01 ‹Howard Andrew Jones› Take care, Nspicer!
21/11/2011 18:53:01 ‹GameMaster's Kip› lol@Richard
21/11/2011 18:53:06 ‹James Sutter› Actually, I find real-world cursing much less distracting than made-up stuff.
21/11/2011 18:53:07 ‹Justin Sluder› Dragonlance was my gateway into fantasy RPGs.
21/11/2011 18:53:27 ‹Justin Sluder› take care Neil
21/11/2011 18:53:27 ‹Kevin Andrew Murphy› Response from Zelazny: "Nice. I liked."
21/11/2011 18:53:29 ‹James Sutter› Hearing "Frak" in Battlestar Galactica always broke my suspension of disbelief and made it seem silly.
21/11/2011 18:53:32 ‹JC Hay› Kip: writing, and reading, and writing. And developing a thick skin by being critiqued.
21/11/2011 18:53:33 ‹Kevin Andrew Murphy› I still have that letter.
21/11/2011 18:53:39 ‹Dave Gross› GameMaster's Kip: I'd say neither of those. But I think certain college courses, and the required writing and feedback that went along with them, were far more valuable than most of the informal review of peers.
21/11/2011 18:53:40 ‹Russ› Erik Mona: ah, the rat
21/11/2011 18:53:43 ‹xellos› Kevin Andrew Murphy: That's terrific.
21/11/2011 18:53:53 ‹James Sutter› (I had the same problem with the real-world "hella" for a long time, before I got used to it.)
21/11/2011 18:54:13 * NSpicer quit
21/11/2011 18:54:14 ‹Erik Mona› Kip> I basically majored in creative writing, so that was hugely, hugely helpful. But beyond that, I think actually just the repetition of writing over and over and over again, years of editing and looking at how and why sentences and words work, and lots and lots of reading (not just in-genre) are at least as important as education.
21/11/2011 18:54:21 ‹ElaineCunningham› I need to run. Thanks for organizing this, Dave.
21/11/2011 18:54:22 ‹Dave Gross› I self-edited in a few early cases, fairly sure that James would not approve my use of the pejorative "goat-fucker" in Prince of Wolves.
21/11/2011 18:54:35 ‹Richard Lee Byers› College helped my writing tremendously, but not because of the writing I had to do there. What helped me was studying all the stuff I studied on my way to a liberal arts degree.
21/11/2011 18:54:35 ‹GameMaster's Kip› ELAINE WAIT!
21/11/2011 18:54:36 ‹ElaineCunningham› Again with the goats!
21/11/2011 18:54:40 ‹GameMaster's Kip› ...have a happy Turkey Day. =)
21/11/2011 18:54:40 ‹xellos› Dave Gross: I admin, I was surprised that you slipped that by him.
21/11/2011 18:54:43 ‹Dave Gross› ElaineCunningham: Thanks for joining us, Elaine!
21/11/2011 18:54:44 ‹xellos› admit*
21/11/2011 18:54:48 ‹ElaineCunningham› ::rude gesture::
21/11/2011 18:54:53 ‹ElaineCunningham› At Kip, that is.
21/11/2011 18:54:56 ‹James Sutter› Dave> Goat-fucker is definitely on the "no" list
21/11/2011 18:54:56 ‹xellos› ElaineCunningham: Night.
21/11/2011 18:54:57 ‹GameMaster's Kip› Booyah
21/11/2011 18:55:03 ‹JC Hay› Thanks ElaineCunningham!
21/11/2011 18:55:09 * Lady Elaine joins pftales
21/11/2011 18:55:30 ‹JC Hay› :goes to the editing board and removes goat fornication...
21/11/2011 18:55:32 ‹Lady Elaine› bah! I forgot all about this tonight.
21/11/2011 18:55:37 ‹Gulo› Bye Elaine -- thanks for writing in Pathfinder!
21/11/2011 18:55:37 ‹Justin Sluder› howdy Mrs. Betts (aka Lady Elaine)
21/11/2011 18:55:50 ‹xellos› All authors: Who's attending Paizocon?
21/11/2011 18:55:57 ‹James Sutter› Now now, J.C., it's not the ACT, it's the WORD
21/11/2011 18:55:58 ‹Erik Mona› James's boss would not have let "goat-fucker" through, in any event.
21/11/2011 18:55:59 ‹Lady Elaine› Justin Sluder: good evening
21/11/2011 18:56:01 ‹GameMaster's Kip› Yes, what Xellos said!
21/11/2011 18:56:19 * _ElaineCunningham was consumed by the Chatbeast (NOM!)_
21/11/2011 18:56:22 ‹Dave Gross› While the official time is coming to a close, everyone’s welcome to hang out as long as you’d like. I’d like to thank James, Kevin, Erik, Howard, J.C., Elaine, and Richard for joining us tonight. If you had a good time, please help us spread the word for the next chat, which we’ll announce for sometime in January.
21/11/2011 18:56:26 ‹Howard Andrew Jones› Kip: Sorry -- I missed your question somehow. Definitely writing and showing it around for feedback. Writing, writing, reading, studying other writers. A good writing class can be a big help, but some writing classes kill genre fiction. They hunt it with stakes and pitchforks.
21/11/2011 18:56:27 ‹James Sutter› Saying naughty things in civilized language is what half of fantasy dialogue is about.
21/11/2011 18:56:46 ‹Wes Schneider› Interesting that some folks seem jarred by the profanity bit. Is it that it just doesn't seem "fantasy" or is it more of a content thing? (Maybe it's just the folks I play with, but profanity seems VERY Pathfinder to me ) Would people have the same issues with more (even PG-13) sexually explicit content?
21/11/2011 18:56:52 ‹Russ› Thanks authors! wish I could have been here for the whole thing
21/11/2011 18:56:58 ‹Howard Andrew Jones› Dave, thanks for running another fine chat.
21/11/2011 18:56:58 ‹Mulban› So, now I have rewrite this story about the fecalphiliac gnome
21/11/2011 18:57:03 ‹xellos› Who's James's boss?
21/11/2011 18:57:06 ‹Wes Schneider› Then I see Sutter's "Not the Act, but the Word" comment. Huh.
21/11/2011 18:57:08 ‹JC Hay› Kip: What Howard says - I took some creative writing courses and was ostracized by the teacher for wanting to write Genre
21/11/2011 18:57:12 ‹GameMaster's Kip› Thanks to everyone that responded to that question. Also - goat fucker.
21/11/2011 18:57:18 ‹Erik Mona› I actually had two speculative fiction writing courses at my college, and wrote a fantasy novella as my senior writing project with no objections, but then my school was a little strange.
21/11/2011 18:57:25 ‹Russ› You can't call the man a pig fucker!
21/11/2011 18:57:25 ‹Kevin Andrew Murphy› I once had Aleister Crowley in a WW novel speaking dirty (because he would). I was asked to dial it back, so I put it in high level metaphysical jargon where he bragged, "So I procured a catamite with which I performed the rites of Zeus and Hermes."
21/11/2011 18:57:29 ‹Dave Gross› Wes Schneider: Personally, I would have thought that shows like Deadwood and Game of Thrones would relieve some of the Tolkienien perception that fantasy worlds don't include vulgar curses.
21/11/2011 18:57:30 ‹Richard Lee Byers› What if a character just gets to third base with the goat?
21/11/2011 18:57:36 ‹Pygon› how about goat fraker?
21/11/2011 18:57:38 ‹James Sutter› Is this where Wes unveils his "Loins of Ustalav" novel proposal?
21/11/2011 18:57:40 ‹GameMaster's Kip› Then he's a goat fiddler.
21/11/2011 18:57:41 ‹Dave Gross› Howard Andrew Jones: Thanks for joining us, mate.
21/11/2011 18:57:53 ‹GameMaster's Kip› It's actually a prestige class that involves several levels of druid and just one of bard..
21/11/2011 18:58:02 ‹Justin Sluder› Wes Schneider: I see nearly anything as being acceptable, as long as it fits the story.
21/11/2011 18:58:03 ‹Bill Ward› Kevin Andrew Murphy: which is actually creepier
21/11/2011 18:58:04 ‹Kevin Andrew Murphy› Erik Mona: Which school? I did creative writing at UC Santa Cruz.
21/11/2011 18:58:05 ‹JC Hay› Kevin: That's awesome.
21/11/2011 18:58:06 ‹Wes Schneider› James Sutter: Gross... Hot... Gross.
21/11/2011 18:58:07 * NebulousMistress joins PFTales
21/11/2011 18:58:07 ‹Erik Mona› Xellos: I was talking about me, but technically Wes fits in there somewhere too.
21/11/2011 18:58:18 ‹xellos› Erik Mona: I suspected, just making sure. ^^
21/11/2011 18:58:26 ‹Dave Gross› To be fair, James instructed me to put back in a scene involving a goat rapist.