Here are all your posts at the gb cafe

НазваниеHere are all your posts at the gb cafe
Дата конвертации01.11.2012
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Here are all your posts at the GB cafe.
The captions on each line are as follows-

N: post number
S: subject
A: author
E: e-mail address
D: date
P: prior post number (if this is a response)
R: responding post numbers
T: text of post (repeats for each paragraph)
The T lines can be quite long, ie a paragraph.

N: 4368
S: Reading The Great Books
A: Terrence Berres
D: Tuesday, 4 August 1998
P: 4236
T: The Great Ideas Program is a 10 volume companion set to Britannica's Great Books of the Western World. You might find it helpful in connection with an on-line discussion group or your own reading. The set consists of a series of suggested readings from GBWW, a short essay about each selection, and some suggested discussion questions for each.
T: The set is out of print but I see it regularly in used book stores for (US)$10-25. It is also being serialized in Philosophy Is Everybody's Business, a quarterly publication of The Center for the Study of The Great Ideas.

N: 4384
S: The Situation of Women in Western Civilization
A: Terrence Berres
D: Thursday, 6 August 1998
P: 4379
T: You might consult The Syntopicon (the two volume topical digest to Great Books of the Western World). Topic Family 5a is 'The role of women in the family: the relation of husband and wife in domestic government.' Topic Family 5b is 'The status of women in the state: the right to citizenship, property, education.' Each topic lists numerous references to pertinent passages in the great books which might provide some of the information you need.

N: 4416
S: Aristotle on ...
A: Terrence Berres
D: Saturday, 8 August 1998
P: 1037
R: 4420
T: Saw your post tracing back from a recent response. The first contemporary issue you raised was abortion. Here is what Aristotle had to say in Politics 1335b20 and following, GBWW [I] v. 9, p. 540,
T: 'As to the exposure and rearing of children, let there be a law that no deformed child shall live, but that on the ground of an excess in the number of children, if the established customs of the state forbid this (for in our state population has a limit), no child is to be exposed, but when couples have children in excess, let abortion be procured before sense and life have begun; what may or may not be lawfully done in these cases depends on the question of life and sensation.'

N: 4429
S: Aristotle 1998
A: Terrence Berres
D: Saturday, 8 August 1998
P: 4420
R: 4438
T: Assuming that the test of lawfulness (or morality) is that asserted by Aristotle, then the question (or questions) would be how to determine when sense and life begin.
T: Leaving that aside, would Mr McOmie concede, as 'advocatus diaboli', that Aristotle gave as good a brief statement of this issue as most of our contemporaries?

N: 4458
S: How We Got from There to Here
A: Terrence Berres
D: Sunday, 9 August 1998
P: 4454
R: 4480
T: In 'The Revenge of Conscience,' J. Budziszewski gives one version of the route, see

N: 5162
S: Great Books of the Western World
A: Terrence Berres
D: Friday, 11 September 1998
P: 5140
T: While I tend to agree that the contents of these books are priceless, I estimate a complete set would sell at a used book store for around US$300. The missing volumes reduce the set's market value substantially. I bought a set missing only one volume for $100. You might check some of the on-line used book services, e.g.,, to try to complete your set. It might take some time to locate the missing volumes from the same printing.
T: Even your broken set is a good foundation for or addition to a home library. For that purpose, you could complete the set with volumes from other printings or even other publishers.

N: 5227
S: More Persons?
A: Terrence Berres
D: Monday, 14 September 1998
P: 5169
R: 5228
T: If there are supernatural beings or extraterrestrial beings, then wouldn't they also be considered persons?

N: 5241
S: Adler on Persons
A: Terrence Berres
D: Tuesday, 15 September 1998
P: 5228
R: 5243 5259 5284
T: I do not agree that 'In all of recorded history, person is synonymous with 'a human being;--a member of the human race or species.' By the second paragraph of page 1 of The Syntopicon (GBWW [I] v. 2, p. 1), Dr. Adler is discussing how angels are traditionally pictured in almost human form because they are generally regarded as persons. Christian theology has long included the doctrine of the Trinity, three persons in one God.
T: On these grounds, I say the meaning of 'person' is closer to that of 'being' than to that of 'human being.'

N: 5266
S: Cicero in The Great Books
A: Terrence Berres
D: Tuesday, 15 September 1998
P: 5131
T: Some of Cicero's writings are included in Gateway to the Great Books, a companion set to Great Books of the Western World.
T: (This is a second attempt to respond to your post. I apologize for the duplication if the earlier one eventually appears.)

N: 5267
S: Animals as Beings
A: Terrence Berres
D: Tuesday, 15 September 1998
P: 5259
R: 5271
T: I have been using the word being to include some kind of consciousness of self.
T: Some animals might have a bit of this. I have read that some ape species can recognize their individual reflections in a mirror.
T: If you want a general answer, animals are not beings in this sense.

N: 5274
S: Why Do You Ask?
A: Terrence Berres
D: Tuesday, 15 September 1998
P: 5271
R: 5277 5278
T: Are you asking to establish a point regarding whether animals, as animals, have rights?
T: If animals are not beings, they lack the potential to ever be aware of rights. They could never knowingly enforce or protect rights. In these circumstances, it's hard to see how they can be said to have rights.

N: 5304
S: Back to Class
A: Terrence Berres
D: Wednesday, 16 September 1998
P: 5277
T: In this context, I am classifying humans among beings and animals remain as a class. If we were discussing another topic, humans might more appropriately be classified with animals.

N: 5306
S: Beings and Persons, cont.
A: Terrence Berres
D: Wednesday, 16 September 1998
P: 5284
R: 5330
T: One meaning of the noun beings is those thing that exist. Another is those types of things that can be aware of their own existence.
T: > Outside theology, art and legal fiction, humans beings are the only persons that are encountered in common experience.
T: If you mean to exclude religion, art, and our contact with legal entities such as corporations, then what remains is not common experience.

N: 5506
S: Minions for Defense
A: Terrence Berres
D: Wednesday, 23 September 1998
P: 5503
R: 5514
T: Re: The Census
T: Each party advocates its policy preference (and here an interpretation of the Constitution). Each is motivated, in part, by political advantage. Isn't this how a legislature is supposed to work?
T: On the specific constitutional issue, the Constitution* requires 'enumeration,' Article One, Section 2. Estimates based on statistical samples is a less obvious meaning of this term than an actual count.
T: On the policy issue, if, as Mr. Gold says, 'There is a long history of science ... being distorted for ... political ... reasons,' then doesn't using estimates pose a greater risk of such a distortion?
T: Re: Hon. Newt Gingrich
T: When I met him, he had been Speaker of the House for a couple of years. As Mr. Knight said, he did seem like a nice fellow. Autographed a floppy disk on which I had downloaded HTML transcripts of his 'Renewing American Civilization' lectures.
T: *U.S. (1789)

N: 5599
S: Be Newt Afraid
A: Terrence Berres
D: Friday, 25 September 1998
P: 5514
R: 5608 5614
T: > Mr. Berres:
T: At least you didn't say 'Mr.(?)'
T: Must the Constitution be interpreted? Until I read in the morning paper that Sen. Feingold agreed that Mr. Heston's understanding of the Second Amendment was obviously correct, I would have been inclined to say yes. Now, perhaps, I will have to reconsider. What the Founding Fathers would have done is unknowable. What the Constitution says is 'enumeration.'
T: You can count or you can estimate. What you support is an estimate. You assert it is more accurate than the count that would actually be performed. Mr. Knight lays out reasons to doubt this in principle. I further pointed out that estimates, no matter how good in principle, will be more susceptible to manipulation for partisan advantage in practice. (If the Constitutional Convention were being held now, these points could be debated there.)
T: After politics, office politics, faculty politics, church politics, etc., maybe there are some things that are not political. The proper role of science in formulating public policy is a political issue.
T: > As for the Hon.(?) Newt Gingrich: I guess from what you and Mr. Knight say, he's learned to smile and shake hands with his supporters. I've never met the man myself, but from a distance he continues to scare the bejesus out of me.
T: He likely learned to smile and shake hands when being taught good manners as a child. Are Mr. Knight and I at a disadvantage by seeing him both from a distance and face-to-face? And did you really want to have bejesus in you?

N: 5631
S: Bite Received
A: Terrence Berres
D: Friday, 25 September 1998
P: 5614
R: 5634
T: I understand your post as expressing your views on proper decorum in this forum, offered for what you hope will be my future benefit and that of all participants. If I am understanding you correctly, thank you.

N: 7480
S: Non-Platonic Dialogue
A: Terrence Berres
D: Friday, 6 November 1998
P: 7479
T: >>But the voluntary component is as strong in the first example as in the second: the victim always can say, 'Go ahead and shoot.'
T: >Or what Jack Benny did when asked for his money or his life: .......................................................................................silence!
T: Then: Robber: 'Well?' Benny: 'I'm thinking, I'm thinking!'

N: 7818
S: World Government
A: Terrence Berres
D: Thursday, 12 November 1998
P: 7814
R: 7833 7974
T: > I prefer a set of international laws, and a forum where nations deal with one another on the basis of pragmatic self interest, to a world government with the authority to force its will upon member nations.
T: Would it be fair to say that you are in favor of world government but opposed to a world government?

N: 7874
S: What's Next
A: Terrence Berres
D: Thursday, 12 November 1998
P: 7864
R: 7877
T: The Book of Sequels suggests one possibility: sequels to The Great Books, e.g., Raise the Pequod by Tom Clancy.

N: 7968
S: Constitutional Force and Authority
A: Terrence Berres
D: Friday, 13 November 1998
P: 7820
R: 7971
T: >>...a world government with the authority to force its will upon member nations.
T: >Would this be the case if a world federation were constitutionally formed?
T: Looking back at American history, particularly the Civil War, the answer is yes, it would be the case.

N: 8024
S: If I Ruled the World
A: Terrence Berres
D: Friday, 13 November 1998
P: 7971
R: 8295
T: PH: ' government, if properly constituted, would not have overwhelming force at its disposal, as it might if it were empowered with a vast military establishment proportionate to its global scope, rather than confined to the use of a civil police force designed primarily to preserve civil peace.' (Mortimer Adler, 'The Common Sense of Politics', pp. 188-189)'
T: Are you citing this to say that you envision a world government too lightly armed to fight a civil war? If so, it would have to be more lightly armed than many local police departments already are. How, then, would it keep the peace?
T: And weapons might be irrelevant, e.g., if a world society turned into a large version of recent Ruandan society. It still appears to me that creating even slight potential of a world-wide civil war risks death and destruction beyond what we risk in civil wars and international wars in a world of sovereign nations.
T: PH: Is the authority vested in constitutional governors an authority to force *their* collective will on those whom they are appointed to govern, or an authority to enforce the legislated will of their constituents whom they represent?
T: No. It is the authority to secure the rights of the people.

N: 8095
S: Who Are You Calling a Hypocrite?
A: Terrence Berres
D: Sunday, 15 November 1998
P: 8069
T: By hypocrite do you mean someone who fails to practice what they preach or someone who doesn't believe what they preach?

N: 8381
S: Light Bearer
A: Terrence Berres
D: Wednesday, 18 November 1998
P: 8292
R: 8395
T: > Loyality to the truth is the only way the good is ever determined. If I truly do not see something, I truly do not see it. If loyality to this standard means that I have to burn, then I will willingly die and burn for this standard. It is what I believe in.
T: Isn't this loyalty to your own view rather than loyalty to the truth? I believe Mr. Gold asked you to suppose that what you see is not things as they truly are and that what Christians say God has revealed to them is true. You appear to say that even if you accepted these suppositions, your position would still be ethically superior.

N: 8432
S: Drive Carefully!
A: Terrence Berres
D: Thursday, 19 November 1998
P: 8395
R: 8456
T: > If I am killed in a car wreck tomorrow and if God is so viscious and cruel as to send me to hell for my unbelief, then I am will accept that punishment willingly as the price I pay for honesty.
T: > What was the point of your post?
T: You were asked if your position might lead to the intolerance you criticize in others. Doesn't it appear that it would lead you to be intolerant even of God if God disagrees with you?

N: 8858
S: Thanksgiving
A: Terrence Berres
D: Thursday, 26 November 1998
P: 8824
T: > > You may be interested to know that as Mortimer Adler approaches his 96th birthday next month, he is busy writing (with a mechanical typewriter) his 60th book ...
T: > Like I said before, I'm so glad Adler has lived so long. I hope he makes a hundred!
T: A hundred books, that is!

N: 9220
S: Who Judges Philosophy
A: Terrence Berres
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