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SUP. MOLINA: LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS. I'M GETTING CONFUSED HERE. WHEN THERE'S A RAPE KIT, RIGHT, IT INCLUDES D.N.A., RIGHT?


ROBERT TAYLOR: IT COULD HAVE BIOLOGICAL MATERIAL IN THE KIT.


SUP. MOLINA: THE MAJORITY OF IT DOES.


ROBERT TAYLOR: YES.


SUP. MOLINA: SO DOESN'T IT STAND IN LINE TO BE TESTED? NOW IF IT'S CONSENSUAL RAPE, SO WHAT? IT'S STILL RAPE. YOU GUYS MAKE A JUDGMENT ON THIS? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.


ROBERT TAYLOR: AS A LABORATORY, WE'RE NOT THE INVESTIGATORS--


SUP. MOLINA: I KNOW. I'M ASKING A DIFFERENT QUESTION. SOMEBODY FILES A RAPE CHARGE. THERE'S A RAPE KIT THAT IS PREPARED. I TAKE IT THAT THE REASON THAT THEY HAVE DONE A SWAB FOR D.N.A. IS TO FIND OUT WHO DID IT. NOW, ON A CONSENSUAL RAPE CASE, THAT'S AN OXYMORON, CONSENSUAL RAPE? YOU SAID THE WORD.


ROBERT TAYLOR: A SEXUAL ASSAULT WHERE THERE'S AN ISSUE OF CONSENT. I DIDN'T MEAN CONSENSUAL.


SUP. MOLINA: I KNOW YOU DIDN'T, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.


ROBERT TAYLOR: WHERE THERE IS A SUSPECT KNOWN AND IT'S KIND OF A HE SAID, SHE SAID ISSUE.


SUP. MOLINA: BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE A JUDGMENT ON IT. UNLESS IT IS AND I DON'T KNOW THAT.


ROBERT TAYLOR: IT'S NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY, HOWEVER IF THOSE KITS ARE NOT BROUGHT INTO THE LAB, WE DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE OUT THERE TO TEST.


SUP. MOLINA: THAT'S THE QUESTION I GUESS I'M ASKING AND I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE ARE RAPE KITS OUT THERE THAT ARE NEVER EVEN SUBMITTED TO YOU.


ROBERT TAYLOR: YES.


SUP. MOLINA: WHY IS THAT?


EARL SHIELDS: WELL, SUPERVISORS, MY NAME IS EARL SHIELDS, COMMANDER, TECHNICAL SERVICES DIVISION. AGAIN AS BOB MENTIONED EARLIER, HE ALLUDED TO, IF IDENTITY IS NOT AN ISSUE, THEN THERE IS NO POINT IN TESTING. I THINK THAT ANSWERS THAT QUESTION.


SUP. MOLINA: THAT'S AN OBVIOUS ANSWER. THAT MAKES SENSE.


EARL SHIELDS: THERE IS NO SENSE DOING D.N.A.


SUP. MOLINA: OTHER THAN IDENTITY IS ALREADY KNOWN, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO TEST IT FOR THAT.


EARL SHIELDS: RIGHT.


SUP. MOLINA: SO WHY WOULD ANY OTHER ONE BE HELD BACK?


EARL SHIELDS: ANY OTHER?


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: ANY OTHER RAPE KIT.


SUP. MOLINA: YEAH. THESE RAPE KITS, ARE THEY HELD BACK BY OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL?


EARL SHIELDS: NO, NOT NECESSARILY.


SUP. MOLINA: EVER?


EARL SHIELDS: WHEN THE RAPE KIT IS TAKEN, WHAT HAPPENS IS THERE IS AN INVESTIGATIVE REVIEW OF IT TO DETERMINE: HAS A CRIME BEEN COMMITTED, NUMBER ONE? AND IF A CRIME'S BEEN COMMITTED, THEN THE INVESTIGATOR CAN REQUEST THAT THAT EVIDENCE, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, A RAPE KIT OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE CAN BE TESTED FOR D.N.A. AND THAT'S WHAT THE LAB DOES. WE'RE A SUPPORT FUNCTION TO THE INVESTIGATORS.


SUP. MOLINA: SO UNDER THAT PROTOCOL, THERE IS AN AVERAGE WAIT TIME WHICH IS STANDARD FOR YOU ALL, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? 50 CASES.


EARL SHIELDS: RIGHT. THERE'S 50 CASES, OF WHICH A SMALL NUMBER OF THOSE ARE SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS. AND THERE IS AN AVERAGE TURN AROUND TIME TO DO THE D.N.A. TESTING, RIGHT.


SUP. MOLINA: SO THERE IS NOT A BACKLOG.


EARL SHIELDS: NO. WHAT WE CALL A BACKLOG-- LET ME JUST GET IT CLEAR. WHAT WE CALL A BACKLOG IS THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT HAVE BEEN REQUESTED TO HAVE D.N.A. EVIDENCE OR D.N.A. TESTING DONE.


SUP. MOLINA: BY WHO?


EARL SHIELDS: BY THE INVESTIGATOR. WHETHER IT'S SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT OR INDEPENDENT AGENCY. BUT THOSE CASES ARE NOW WAITING TO BE ASSIGNED FOR ANALYSIS.


SUP. MOLINA: HOW MANY CASES ARE THOSE?


EARL SHIELDS: IT'S APPROXIMATELY 50.


SUP. MOLINA: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT CONSIDERED A BACKLOG OR NOT?


EARL SHIELDS: THAT'S WHAT WE CONSIDER OUR BACKLOG, YES.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: THAT'S NOT THE ONLY PLACE. HOW MANY RAPE KITS DO YOU HAVE AT CENTRAL STORAGE?


EARL SHIELDS: THAT ALLUDES TO THE OTHER PART OF THE QUESTION YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IS THAT OFF THE TOP OF OUR HEADS, WE COULD NOT TELL YOU RIGHT NOW. BUT THERE IS A NUMBER OF REASONS.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: GLORIA, THAT'S THE THING THAT I WANT TO FOCUS ON.


SUP. MOLINA: WHAT IS IT?


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF SITUATIONS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT. ONE IS THE DETECTIVE ASKED YOU TO TEST THE RAPE KIT AND YOU TEST IT AT THE LAB. SO WHEN YOU SAY YOU HAVE 50, THAT'S AT THE LAB. WHEN THE DETECTIVE DOESN'T ASK YOU TO TEST IT AND YOU'VE GOT THE RAPE KIT, YOU SEND IT OFF TO CENTRAL STORAGE, CORRECT?


EARL SHIELDS: CORRECT.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: MY QUESTION WAS HOW MANY ARE IN CENTRAL STORAGE? HE SAYS HE DOESN'T KNOW. THAT WAS THE ISSUE.


SUP. MOLINA: BUT THAT'S WHY I ASKED THIS QUESTION. I ASKED THE QUESTION IS THAT THE REASON YOU TAKE A D.N.A. SAMPLE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHO. IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON?


SUP. BURKE, CHAIR: MIGHT BE A ROBBERY, RIGHT?


SUP. MOLINA: WAIT. THIS IS RAPE.


SUP. BURKE, CHAIR: DON'T THEY COVER OTHER THINGS?


SUP. MOLINA: WAIT. LET'S JUST STAY WITH THIS. IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON?


EARL SHIELDS: THERE'S BEEN AN ALLEGATION OF A CRIME.


SUP. MOLINA: BUT A RAPE.


EARL SHIELDS: RIGHT. A SEXUAL ASSAULT OF SOME KIND, CORRECT.


SUP. MOLINA: SO, AGAIN, SO LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS. THERE IS SOMEBODY MAKING A DECISION THAT THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE A D.N.A. TEST, WHICH IS AN INVESTIGATOR.


EARL SHIELDS: CORRECT.


SUP. MOLINA: SO THAT IS A POLICY THAT YOU DON'T DEAL WITH.


EARL SHIELDS: NOT AT THIS TIME, NO.


SUP. MOLINA: SO IT DEALS WITH-- WHO DEALS WITH IT? THE SHERIFF? THE DETECTIVE? THE HEAD OF DETECTIVES? WHO HANDLES THIS PART? BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. I HAVE A CONCERN IF WE HAVE A BACKLOG OF RAPE CASES THAT ARE NOT BEING HANDLED. THAT SHOULD BE WITH YOU ALL. IF 50 IS STANDARD, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. BUT IF THE ISSUE IS THAT YOU HAVE A DETECTIVE WHO SAID, "NAH, IT WAS CONSENSUAL RAPE," AS YOU JUST CALLED IT. IS THAT WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? YOU HAVE DETECTIVES THAT ARE MAKING JUDGMENTS ABOUT THINGS: "NAH, THIS DOESN'T NEED A D.N.A. TEST.


EARL SHIELDS: IT IS NOT JUST SEXUAL ASSAULT. INVESTIGATORS HANDLE EVERY TYPE OF CASE THAT REQUIRES INVESTIGATION.


SUP. MOLINA: I'M TALKING ONLY RAPE KITS.


ROBERT TAYLOR: AND ALSO, THE UNDERSTANDING I HAVE SOME OF THE DETECTIVES IS THAT D.A.'S OFFICE WILL NOTIFY THEM ABOUT THE CASE GOING FORWARD. AT THAT POINT THE DETECTIVE WILL TAKE THE CASE FORWARD AND SEND US THE CASE FOR EVIDENCE.


SUP. MOLINA: BUT AGAIN JUST SO I UNDERSTAND THIS CLEARLY. IT IS THE INVESTIGATOR WHO MAKES THE DECISION WHETHER TO HAVE A D.N.A. TEST OR NOT. IS THAT CORRECT?


EARL SHIELDS: THAT MAKES THE REQUEST, THAT IS CORRECT.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: GLORIA, CAN I JUST?


SUP. MOLINA: SURE.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DRIVING AT BUT I THINK I CAN HELP. YOU HAVE A CRIME, A SEXUAL ASSAULT. THE GUY CONFESSES. HE'S GOING TO PLEAD OUT GUILTY TO SOMETHING. THE DETECTIVE DECIDES HE DOESN'T NEED THE GO TO THE EXPENSE OF HAVING A D.N.A. TEST AT THE TIME.


SUP. MOLINA: CASE SOLVED.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: CASE SOLVED. WHAT ISN'T TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF, NOW THAT YOU'VE GOT THE SPECIMEN, I'M TOLD BY MY STAFF THAT IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS, NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THEY DID THIS, THEY RAN THESE D.N.A. TESTS, YOU GOT SEVERAL THOUSAND ADDITIONAL HITS BECAUSE THE SAME GUY THAT YOU CATCH TODAY AND CONFESSES TO SOMETHING AND PLEADS OUT TO A LESSER CRIME OR WHATEVER HAPPENS MAY BE A GUY WHO'S DONE 30 OTHER RAPES AND THEY GO UNSOLVED.


SUP. MOLINA: OR MURDER.


SUP. YAROSLAVSKY: OR MURDER, YEAH. IT COULD BE ANYTHING. SO THAT'S THE ISSUE. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M FOCUSED ON IS WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE RAPE KITS WHERE THE DETECTIVE, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT DECIDES THEY DON'T NEED, IN THIS CASE, TO HAVE IT TESTED. IT IS SENT OFF TO CENTRAL STORAGE. IT'S SITTING SOMEWHERE OVER THERE. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY IT IS. WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY IT IS. BUT IT COULD BE, IN THE CASE OF L.A.P.D., IT WAS OVER 7,000 SLIDES OR RAPE KITS. EVEN IF IT'S 2,000 RAPE KITS, IN THE CASE OF THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, THAT'S A LOT. AND EACH ONE OF THOSE COULD LEAD TO OTHER THINGS. AND I THINK THIS IS-- YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM THE LAB'S POINT OF VIEW. SOMEBODY ELSE IS LOOKING AT IT FROM THE WAREHOUSE'S POINT OF VIEW. WE'RE LOOKING A LITTLE MORE GLOBALLY. THAT'S WHAT I'M DRIVING AT.


SUP. MOLINA: I'M NOT SO SURE I DO UNDERSTAND, BUT I'M VERY TROUBLED BY THE RESPONSES HERE AND IT REALLY MAYBE REQUIRES US TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THIS POLICY. I TAKE IT THAT IF SOMEBODY PLEADED GUILTY TO RAPE, OKAY, SO NOW YOU SOLVED THE ISSUE. BUT I GUESS WHAT MR. YAROSLAVSKY IS SAYING: WHAT ABOUT THE 17 UNSOLVED RAPE CASES THAT MIGHT HAVE THAT WOULD MATCH THIS D.N.A.? YOU WOULD HAVE 17 OTHER CASES THAT WOULD BE SOLVED. NOW, IS THERE NOT ALSO THIS GUY GOES OFF TO JAIL, DO THEY NOT DO A D.N.A. TEST THERE, AS WELL?


EARL SHIELDS: YES.


KEN HOWARD: KEN HOWARD, SUPERVISING CRIMINALIST IN THE BIOLOGY SECTION. THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YES.


SUP. MOLINA: SO YOU WOULD GET IT THAT WAY.


KEN HOWARD: EXACTLY. THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING TO GO WITH THAT.


SUP. MOLINA: SO THEN LET ME UNDERSTAND. SO THOSE THAT WOULD BE STORED AWAY ARE BASICALLY, I DON'T WANT TO SAY CONSENSUAL RAPE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT A GOOD WORD.


ROBERT TAYLOR: I MISSPOKE ON THAT.


SUP. MOLINA: BUT SOMEBODY WHO GOT MAD AT HER BOYFRIEND OR SOMETHING.


EARL SHIELDS: THERE'S A NUMBER OF ISSUES. THERE'S A NUMBER OF REASONS IT COULD BE IN STORAGE. IT COULD BE IN STORAGE BECAUSE IT'S BEEN TESTED ALREADY. IT COULD BE IN STORAGE BECAUSE IT HAS NO PROBATIVE OR EVIDENTIARY VALUE. IT COULD BE IN STORAGE BECAUSE OF A POST-CONVICTION D.N.A. HOLD. BECAUSE OF LAW, WE'RE REQUIRED TO KEEP ALL BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF CONVICTED PEOPLE IN THERE. SO THERE'S ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.


SUP. MOLINA: SO THERE'S A RATIONALE THAT CAN EXPLAIN.


EARL SHIELDS: CORRECT.


SUP. MOLINA: BUT THERE'S NOT A RATIONALE FOR SOMEBODY MAKING A JUDGMENT ABOUT, "AH, THIS WASN'T REALLY RAPE SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT." NO? EVEN THOUGH THE PLAINTIFF OR THE PERSON SAYS, "NO, NO, I WAS RAPED." YOU DON'T MAKE THAT JUDGMENT? NO. ALL RIGHT. OR IT'S BEEN SOLVED. OR YOU'VE BEEN REQUIRED, FOR WHATEVER OTHER PROTOCOL YOU HAVE, TO STORE IT. BUT YOU'RE NOT NEGATING A PERSON WHO HAS SUBMITTED TO A RAPE KIT FROM AT LEAST HAVING SOME INVESTIGATION, AT LEAST A D.N.A.? YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT, ARE YOU?


EARL SHIELDS: FIRST OFF, WHEN WE GET DONE WITH THIS PART OF IT, I DO WANT TO ADDRESS THE EVIDENCE IN STORAGE IN SOME WAY THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE AUTOMATION. BUT FIRST--


SUP. BURKE, CHAIR: AND I'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF MAKING IT COMPUTERIZED, ALL OF THE D.N.A. BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT RATHER THAN AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND IT NOW YOU JUST HAVE-- AND IT'S NOT JUST RAPE KITS. YOU HAVE ALL D.N.A. THAT YOU HAVE RESPONSIBILITY FOR, RIGHT?


EARL SHIELDS: CORRECT.


SUP. BURKE, CHAIR: SO EVEN IF SOMEONE COMES AND ROBS ME AT MY HOUSE AND THERE'S D.N.A. ON THE DOOR, THAT GOES TO YOU, RIGHT? IF IT'S A D.N.A. TEST IS MADE.


ROBERT TAYLOR: CORRECT.


SUP. MOLINA: AND I THINK THE POINT THAT SUPERVISOR YAROSLAVSKY BROUGHT UP, WHICH TO ME IS VERY IMPORTANT, IS IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY IMPORTANCE WHETHER THE D.N.A. COMES FROM A RAPE KIT OR WHERE IT COMES FROM, IT SHOULD BE READILY ASSESSABLE IN SOME METHOD BY SOME INTERNET APPROACH OR SOME COMPUTERIZED RATHER THAN JUST HAVING A LIST OF EVERY D.N.A. THAT YOU HAVE. THAT MAY GET CONFUSED SOME D.N.A. THAT CAME FROM A RAPE KIT. AND THAT'S THE ISSUE I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT.


EARL SHIELDS: WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO. WE HAVE AN INVESTIGATOR FROM SEX CRIMES UNIT TO ANSWER MISS MOLINA'S QUESTIONS. AND THEN AFTER THAT'S DONE, I'D LIKE TO GET INTO WHAT WE'RE DOING PROACTIVELY TO MOVE FORWARD AND ADDRESS SOME OF THESE ISSUES YOU TALKED ABOUT. SO IF HE CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION, THEN I'LL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.


DAN SCOTT: MA'AM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, FIRST OF ALL, MY NAME IS SERGEANT DAN SCOTT. I WORK WITH SPECIAL VICTIMS BUREAU AND I HAVE OVER 21 YEARS INVESTIGATING SEX CRIMES. FIRST OF ALL, THE TERM RAPE KIT IS JUST A GENERAL TERM BECAUSE MANY TIMES IT WOULD NOT BE A RAPE. IT COULD BE A SEXUAL ASSAULT. WE COULD BE LOOKING FOR SALIVA OR ANY NUMBER OF THINGS. BUT WE DON'T MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL WHERE WE JUST SAY WE DON'T BELIEVE THIS PERSON SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO TEST IT. THE ONES THAT AREN'T TESTED WOULD BE THE CASES THAT TURNED OUT TO BE CONSENSUAL. MAYBE IT WASN'T INITIALLY REPORTED AS CONSENSUAL BUT AFTER THE INVESTIGATION STARTS, IT COULD BE NO CRIME WHERE THE VICTIM RECANTED AND SAID ABSOLUTELY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. THOSE ARE RARE, BUT THEY DO COME UP. SO WHEN WE WANT TO IDENTIFY THE SUSPECT, UNLESS WE HAVE A CONFESSION, WITNESSES OR SOMETHING THAT THE D.A.'S GOING TO FEEL IS SOLID, WE WOULD SEND THAT KIT IN. BUT, YES, IT IS THE DETECTIVE WHO MAKES THE DETERMINATION ON WHETHER THAT RAPE KIT GOES TO THE CRIME LAB OR NOT.


SUP. MOLINA: I UNDERSTAND. BUT AGAIN THERE ISN'T A JUDGMENT THAT IS MADE BY THE INVESTIGATOR OTHER THAN WHAT YOU JUST STATED WHETHER IT'S GOING TO HAVE A D.N.A. TEST OR NOT?


DAN SCOTT: THAT'S CORRECT. AND IT'S ALSO REVIEWED BY THE SERGEANTS, THE LIEUTENANT, ALL WITHIN THE BUREAU. IF IT IS SOMETHING WHERE THE DETECTIVE FEELS "WE DON'T HAVE TO PROCESS IT," IT IS REVIEWED BY AT LEAST TWO OTHER RANKS.


SUP. MOLINA: SO THIS IS A CLARIFICATION I NEEDED. THE OTHER ISSUES MAY BE THE HOW YOU INVENTORY ALL OF THIS AND HOW YOU DEAL WITH, AND WHETHER THERE IS A BACKLOG. FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVE BEEN REQUESTED, AND I REFERRED IT OVER TO THE SHERIFF, SOMEONE WHO WAS KILLED 20 YEARS AGO. AND THEY HAD A D.N.A. SAMPLE. BUT OF COURSE D.N.A. WAS NOT AS TECHNICALLY CORRECT OR IMPROVED AS IT IS TODAY. AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE IT RETESTED. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROCESS WAS. AND I CERTAINLY COULDN'T ASK YOU ALL TO DO IT. SO I TOLD HIM TO CONTACT THE SHERIFF DIRECTLY. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THOSE REQUESTS WORK. BUT THE ISSUE THAT MR. YAROSLAVSKY IS DEALING WITH IS NOT THAT IT'S NOT TESTED. IT'S THAT THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE WITH REGARD TO HOW IT'S MAINTAINED, FILED, INVENTORIED, ET CETERA; IS THAT CORRECT? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION ON MY ISSUE.


DAN SCOTT: YOU'RE WELCOME.


EARL SHIELDS: WE'RE DEALING WITH A NUMBER OF ISSUES HERE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I HIT ALL OF THEM. IF I DON'T, I'M SURE YOU'LL LET ME KNOW HERE. JUST TO GO BACK. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BACKLOG A LITTLE BIT. BACK IN 2001, 2002 THERE WAS A GRANT NAMED SABLE. AND WHAT WE DID AT THAT TIME WAS WE WENT AND LOOKED AT EVERY SEXUAL ASSAULT KIT THAT WAS HELD IN THE STORAGE AND THAT CASE WAS REVIEWED. AND WE ALSO CONTACTED EVERY INDEPENDENT AGENCY IN THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES. ABOUT 1,500 SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS OR CASES, KITS THAT WERE ASSOCIATED WITH CASES THAT WERE REVIEWED. AND WE ENDED UP TESTING-- AFTER REVIEWING THE CASES, TALKING TO PEOPLE, A LARGE NUMBER OF THOSE, 980 WERE TESTED. SO WE'RE FAIRLY COMFORTABLE THAT AS OF 2002, WE WERE BASICALLY CAUGHT UP, SO TO SPEAK IN TERMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT KITS. ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT WE'VE DONE-- AND YOU ARE CORRECT, SUPERVISOR YAROSLAVSKY, IN TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT--

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