Скачать 0.99 Mb.
21/11/2011 18:45:46 ‹xellos› (by them, I mean the reviewers)
21/11/2011 18:45:47 ‹Matthew Morris› "Coming soon... From the makers of the Worldwound Gambit... The Mwangi Job!"
21/11/2011 18:46:01 ‹Erik Mona› The present tense complaints didn't surprise me at all.
21/11/2011 18:46:01 ‹Russ› Matthew Morris: fits one of the classic ways to make a good story hook. Regular guys in a strange environment, or strange guys in a regular environment.
21/11/2011 18:46:08 ‹NSpicer› I think one of the things that helps Master of Devils succeed despite parting ways with the traditional European medieval genre of fantasy is that the characters started out in a prior novel that grounded them in that kind of setting first. It's far easier to imagine Radovan and Varian traipsing all across Golarion, solving mysteries and getting into trouble.
21/11/2011 18:46:20 ‹Dave Gross› Thursty: I felt a lot worse about one-star reviews before I noted how many of them much better authors receive from unreasonable readers.
21/11/2011 18:46:20 ‹Erik Mona› Fantasy tie-in readers are voracious, but they are not known for their love of experimentation of form.
21/11/2011 18:46:31 ‹Russ› Dave Gross: I wasn't going to go there, but when Radovan forced the temples to open their doors to the opium trade, I shook my head sadly...
21/11/2011 18:46:38 ‹JC Hay› Xellos: I have a lot of trouble with first person myself, partly because my narrators tend to be... unreliable.
21/11/2011 18:46:40 ‹Richard Lee Byers› I like first person. I can't usually get away with it in a novel because I need multiple points of view, but I find it to be a very natural way to tell a story.
21/11/2011 18:46:42 ‹Matthew Morris› @Erik. David Drake said that was one of the goals of "Under the Hammer." To use Jeane as a exposition point for the reader.
21/11/2011 18:46:55 ‹Erik Mona› I confess that the griping about Dave swapping POVs chapter by chapter confounds me, though. I don't really think of that as tremendously experimental or even difficult to follow.
21/11/2011 18:46:57 ‹Dave Gross› Russ: Ha!
21/11/2011 18:47:18 ‹xellos› Erik Mona: /agree
21/11/2011 18:47:21 ‹Bill Ward› xellos: some people only like fiction that falls within the narrow parameters of their comfort zone
21/11/2011 18:47:27 ‹Matthew Morris› It doesn't bother me, Erik, Dave. I read Number of the Beast after all...
21/11/2011 18:47:35 ‹Howard Andrew Jones› Erik: Yeah, I don't get that either. Dave is so clear with the tone of his characters. It's EASY to see who's speaking from their manner in just a few lines.
21/11/2011 18:47:35 ‹Fiona› Erik Mona: I found that to be a nice flavor for the story and broke up the perspectives cleanly
21/11/2011 18:47:36 ‹Russ› Paizo got me reading game-related fiction again.
21/11/2011 18:47:45 ‹Erik Mona› And honestly, colonialism is a pretty important subplot of the entire campaign world, so you can't really avoid it. Better to embrace the challenge and show things in an interesting way that captures the reader's attention and interest.
21/11/2011 18:47:46 ‹James Sutter› I think it's safe to say that I was surprised by any complaints folks have had about the novels, or I would have tried to address them.
21/11/2011 18:47:48 ‹Dave Gross› JC Hay: I enjoy first-person BECAUSE those narrators are unreliable, and not just willfully so. And with two first-person POVs, you can show two unreliable views of the same situation and let the reader parse it, which is strong with a strong reader.
21/11/2011 18:47:54 ‹ElaineCunningham› Erik, agreed. Radovan and the count have such distinctive voices that I don't see how it's possible to confuse them.
21/11/2011 18:47:57 ‹Richard Lee Byers› Present tense is something I would hesitate to use in heroic fantasy. I'd worry that it would feel jarringly modern. But that's just my fear. Maybe the proper author can make it work great.
21/11/2011 18:48:08 ‹xellos› Russ: Same here. I had stopped reading it for several years.
21/11/2011 18:48:34 ‹Matthew Morris› @James Actually, I don't have a 'complaint' about Death's Heritic, just a disconnect.
21/11/2011 18:48:37 ‹xellos› James Sutter: Address them how?
21/11/2011 18:49:01 ‹GameMaster's Kip› Russ/Xellos: Same. My old favorite setting went through some rather..jarring changes. I can't believe how much I enjoy Golarion.
21/11/2011 18:49:06 ‹Dave Gross› Without sounding too defensive, I hope, I note that almost as many folks posting comments and reviews have said, "I didn't find the two first-person POVs confusing" or else "After a few chapters, it clicked for me."
21/11/2011 18:49:06 ‹James Sutter› Xellos: fix them.
21/11/2011 18:49:14 ‹JC Hay› Dave Gross: I admit - I love the unreliable Narrator. The ending of Zelazny's Amber is still one of those moments that I treasure - that need to reread the whole thing with new perspective. It's magic. I'm just not as good at it.
21/11/2011 18:49:15 ‹Matthew Morris› @Richard Lee Byers The Worldwound Gambit is present tense.
21/11/2011 18:49:24 ‹Russ› My biggest "complaint" about the fiction is that I don't have time to keep up with it between work, freelance, and family
21/11/2011 18:49:30 ‹Erik Mona› I will say I was VERY skeptical that Dave would be able to pull off the third narrator in Master of Devils, but those ended up being some of my favorite chapters of that book.
21/11/2011 18:49:32 ‹xellos› James Sutter: The reviewers or the works? =P I mean, could you give us an example of what "fixing" might be?
21/11/2011 18:49:37 ‹Kevin Andrew Murphy› Present tense gets less jarring the more screenplays you've read, but I think that gives it a more cinematic feel and less of the feel of reading an antique book.
21/11/2011 18:49:39 ‹James Sutter› @Matthew: What was your disconnect with DH?
21/11/2011 18:49:41 ‹Dave Gross› JC Hay: You mean the ending of the fifth book, yes?
21/11/2011 18:49:44 ‹Richard Lee Byers› Thanks, Matthew. I confess I haven't read that yet. I'll have to check it out.
21/11/2011 18:49:50 * Matthew Morris resists the S word in relation to Arnie.
21/11/2011 18:49:58 ‹JC Hay› Dave Gross: Yes
21/11/2011 18:50:10 ‹Dave Gross› Erik Mona: Dave was skeptical he could pull it off, too. I was all ready to strip it out if the early readers didn't like it, but they all did.
21/11/2011 18:50:27 ‹ElaineCunningham› It worked.
21/11/2011 18:50:28 ‹Matthew Morris› @James Believe it or not... the profanity. Not the existance of it, but for me, reading 'Shit!' just kind of knocked me out of the world.
21/11/2011 18:50:32 ‹James Sutter› Xellos: Oh! I mean, if I had known so many people had a problem with present tense (I don't), I would have advised Robin to switch to past tense.
21/11/2011 18:50:34 ‹Dave Gross› JC Hay: Love those first five books. Zelazny was one of my principal inspirations for getting into writing.
21/11/2011 18:50:35 ‹Erik Mona› Russ: I find that if you sacrifice family and interpersonal relationships on the altar of career, that's just two fewer distractions to keep you from reading and writing.
21/11/2011 18:50:38 ‹ElaineCunningham› I'm a cat person, and I still loved those sections.
21/11/2011 18:50:39 ‹Russ› Dave Gross: If you had stripped it out, God would have killed sixteen kittens
21/11/2011 18:50:47 ‹Bill Ward› Erik Mona: Me too, I did not think it would work at all and withing three paragraphs I had changed my mind, he did an amazing job with Arnisant.
21/11/2011 18:51:06 ‹James Sutter› I think Worldwound Gambit is an awesome book, and I found it really distressing that so many people seemed unable to get past that. Part of my job is helping books connect with readers, and that one blindsided me.
21/11/2011 18:51:14 ‹xellos› Dave Gross: I know lots disagree, but I loved all the Amber books. Merlin stories included. But that's another day's discussion. ^^
21/11/2011 18:51:16 ‹Erik Mona› I always liked how Gary Gygax dropped "Shit" on the first page of the first Gord the Rogue book.
21/11/2011 18:51:18 ‹Erik Mona› Hilarious.
21/11/2011 18:51:26 ‹Richard Lee Byers› I'm with you, Dave. Zelazny was a big inspiration for me, too.
21/11/2011 18:51:34 ‹Russ› Erik Mona: and the last page, too, as I recall.
21/11/2011 18:51:43 ‹Howard Andrew Jones› Dave -- I read the first Chronicles of Amber so many times when I was a kid... the way I hear Tolkien fanatics read the trilogy over and over.
21/11/2011 18:51:44 ‹James Sutter› @Matthew Heh! Yeah, my characters are a bit more "street," as our new developer Patrick would say.
21/11/2011 18:51:44 ‹Dave Gross› Matthew Morris: TSR/Wizards Anecdote: Margaret Weis had Caramon shout, "Shit!" at a key moment in one of the later books. The editor balked, and she said, "Fine. Tell me what else he'd be likely to say in that situation?" The editor gave it some thought and left her shit alone.
21/11/2011 18:51:52 ‹xellos› James Sutter: It is a great book. I'll write a review for it some day. =P
21/11/2011 18:52:13 ‹Matthew Morris› AFK, I'll reply when
21/11/2011 18:52:16 ‹Matthew Morris› I get back
21/11/2011 18:52:28 ‹NSpicer› Bedtime for me on the East Coast. Thanks again as always to the authors and Paizo editors for pulling these things together. I always enjoy witnessing the banter and obtaining all the insight from those at ground zero in the Paizo fiction line. And I've enjoyed the fruits of your labor, even if I still need to catch up on my reading a bit...right after I catch up on my writing, of course.