Forum for Understanding: Science (Discussion about medicine and culture)




НазваниеForum for Understanding: Science (Discussion about medicine and culture)
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<$D> I think uh what I may say here is uh one of these facts is definitely that the drug reduces your life span You die early And when you die early that means you know the country has lost a resource you see So if <-/>if we multiply the <-/>the number of people using that drug you know you know in a local area by the area of the whole country the population of a whole country then we find that we may be losing a lot of people And we are talking of schools

<$D> yeah you're talking of school children you're talking of people who are sports you see what's promised using drugs

<$?> Exactly

<$?> They can lose their ability to run

<$?> Exactly

<$?> And the fact the dangerous fact is

<$?> the dangerous fact

<$?> Exactly and the fact that this <-/>this drug makes you really run faster It now goes to interfere with your

<$?> Natural abilities

<$?> Yes, exactly If you don't have that drug you're not going to run as fast And that way we're going to produce an addict who could otherwise excel even better than you see So actually it is a question whereby the usage of this thing has got numerous you know disadvantages in our society not forgetting the other socio-economic factors like divorce and uh violence at home because we have come to know drug users as people who are generally violent

<$?> Drunken husbands

<$?> Exactly

<$?> Even drunken drivers

<$?> Exactly The sense of reason that will not really arise in your head anymore for so much of

<$?> You mind gets

<$?> Exactly

<$?> To support it you can say that most of uh most of the accidents that you are having nowadays are caused by drugs There have been cases of these Aids you know This one thing is so prevalent and which people tend to ignore but it's a reality anyway We find that somebody somewhere 'cos he has taken some few drinks he feels now you know I don't know

<$?> You can become reckless

<$?> You can become reckless you know you just be quiet and say who cares Maybe the drug is changing you In fact I don't take the drug

<$A> In fact you have said a point that is quite pertinent because most Aids victims are also drug addicts

<$?> I believe that's true

<$A> They are drug addicts The way they inject themselves with the drugs exposes them to Aids And like you've said when you abuse a drug too much you tend to take too many risks You kind of throw caution to the wind so you <-/indelve> yourself in some maybe actions that may lead to diseases and things like that There are road accidents because of people maybe not being careful after having taken one too many

<$?> And there is a breakdown also in the in the social in the social fabric you know people lose <-/>lose respect I mean you know you don't care who is around you can say anything you know So that there is that loosening of uh uh and this is something which is

<$?> of morals

<$?> yea the morals and it's not something which only occurs with the youth You find even parents you know adults who have gone and <-/>and had one too many you know come back They just don't give a damn I mean they don't care what they are saying

<$?> There is one aspect that always tends to be invisible but if plays a very major role okay take for example a taxi driver okay He has to bring in so much money at the end of the day okay And the only way he can do that is properly stay awake What does he do He takes any kind of drug

<$?> Even drunk

<$?> Even drunk yes

<$?> So here you are telling this guy must This is not right you know this <-/>this shouldn't be he shouldn't take this Well this guy knows I have to earn a living I have to get so much money to my boss you know Because what I feel is that the innocent ones the guys that have always said that they don't touch the alcohol like the guys who own matatus <&/>collective taxi with fixed routes are the ones who are actually leading the <-/>the minor victims into the touts

<$?> We are talking about uh the question of uh pressure I mean people are under pressure

<$?> which is unavoidable

<$?> which is unavoidable And they take these uh these drugs which even increase pressure you know even then because they work overcapacity you see so there are people who just find they can't they can't live they can't lead normal lives Yes it's just something which they <-/>they have to do

<$?> <-/>Uha

<$?> Actually your lifespan is curtailed because you have been using these drugs for such a long time and the fact that you don't sleep yourself doesn't actually entitle even your thinking

<$?> Yea I suppose because It's not only matatus or these other people

<$?> You know you find that most of the people who work maybe during the night let's say for instance watchmen See to stay awake they need a drug or something Others need something to keep them going Truck drivers you know it's quite a lengthy lengthy process

<$?> So what we do okay the effects are numerous Most of them are all of them are uh disadvantages

<$?> Disadvantages

<$?> Exactly

<$?> Yes

<$?> It is no good benefit for drugs unless it's prescribed it's used for the purpose it's supposed to be How about what you can do Okay the problem is enormous I don't think that we can start to believe we shall stop it But I think we could suggest ways in which you can prevent it from getting worse

<$?> you know actually

<$?> especially for our youth

<$?> Exactly as far as I'm concerned as I said last time I'm against the fact that the law should be put into force you know complacently

<$?> No we're talking about the youth

<$?> exactly

<$?> What can we do in schools

<$?> yes

<$?> on the streets

<$?> Like what we have in schools is known as state education to also go hand in hand with counselling on drugs

<$?> The problem now exactly the problem now this one is just touched in <-/>in <-/>in that whole uh subject But now a special chance to combat this drug business In fact there is a counselling tonight

<$?> There is there is there's a special one

<$?> People sit down in a in a classroom and they're talking about drugs the effects how to stop them and that kind of thing

<&/>All talk at once

<$?> What I what I believe is

<$?> What can I advise what can they do about themselves without having to wait for counsellors to come around and tell them

<$?> The first thing before we go to the source I think the first thing that parents themselves should take that as an issue As a youth grows up try and talk to him so that later as he also grows up and needs the counsellors was talking about then he'll ask himself Why <-/>why am I doing this But we can't just let a kid just go ahead growing up

<$A> <-/>mhm Well we're kind of running out of time you see What do you say about uh self-prevention?

<$D> There is a lot that uh self-discipline has got to do with this Uh There's the whole question of freedom You know you have freedom but freedom entails responsibility You know you have the freedom to do something and that freedom not to do you know something So I think, it should ensue from uh the individual himself you know the knowledge that drugs are harmful and how do you get this knowledge Well we have education and if education exposes people to the harmful effects of drugs then naturally you grow up to see If you'd also observe and <-/>and and think whether you'd like to be you know like the person was you know wrecked by drugs Whether you'd like to divorce your wife whether you'd like to be killed in an accident because you know you're driving reckless So the whole concept of self-discipline is rather important

<$?> It's like we should not misuse the freedoms we have

<$?> Yeah we shouldn't

<$?> There is one thing you know where we agree that it's either you want to take this or not It's yourself Yes Nobody pushes it into you So you take care So it's a question of having self-discipline self control that is Do I need this

<$A> So in other words we can tell our fellow youth this Drugs are bad and drug abuse is on the increase and it's very bad very bad for someone who is so young and energetic especially in school or out there to become a vegetable to become so much wasted by what you do on drugs or with drugs to become a vegetable useless shorten your life get crazy <-/>mhm to get into violence And I think the best thing you can say is that they should learn to be self-disciplined There is only one way you can prevent more drug abuse by being self disciplined And I think that viewers we'll stop there and until next time Good Night




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<&_><$A> Presenter

<$B> Kamau

<$C> Makhoha

<$D> Mkarasi

<$E> Nyongesa

<$F> Ruth



<$A> continue the discussion on youth and religion And to discuss this topic further on my immediate right is Kamau

<$B> hello <-_viewer><+_viewers>

<$A> and extreme right is Makhoha

<$C> hello viewers

<$A> On my left side Mkarasi

<$D> hello viewers

<$A> Nyongesa

<$E> hello viewers

<$A> and Ruth

<$F> hello viewers

<$A> Now the first question maybe we should dwell with is the increase in the number of religions we have in Kenya There is a constant increase in uh religion What response is there from the youth Does it mean that uh the interest of the youth to religion is on the increase or is it the reverse Ruth maybe you should start us off

<$F> Okay I would say that it's both The youth the interest of the youth largely has reduced has decreased The modern youth these days are kind of removed from religion because of various reasons which we saw earlier on But I'd also say that uh to an extent their interest is also increasing because we can see by the fact that the youth these days are coming up with uh their own religion for example non <-/>non non-denominational religion I don't want to call it religion but this is because they are they are not satisfied with uh the main the church whether it's catholic or Protestant So they feel there is something lacking so they'd like to <-/>to start up their own uh we would call it sect non-denominational where they don't attach themselves to any particular religion But they <-/>they just pray and uh they rely on the on the Bible So I'd say yes I think the increasing number of <-/>of religions it is to an extent the youth their interest is increasing and also decreasing

<$A> What would you say to that Nyongesa

<$E> Uh well according to me I would be I will agree with her of course uh but uh on one hand we'd better look at the reasons why uh we're having an increasing number of religions Uh if you look at the reasons they won't have to say uh to point out that actually the interest is uh decreasing uh because look at the nowadays what you have is church wrangles and all that They are having leadership struggles such that we have so many sects breaking out of the streamline churches and you can't say this is because of <-/>of religion in itself but <./>some sometimes the <-/>the reason is not the church or they cannot be considered to be very fertile So what you have is if we have the number of sects increasing they're being broken off by who are already in churches You cannot say that this shows that there is uh that the interest of the youth is increasing because they may be out of the game all the time On the other hand if we look at it uh closely <&/>noise you might see that uh as she has said that uh with the increase of non- uh non-denominational churches we are getting the youth breaking off from the streamline churches the most of these established churches like uh like uh you can say uh the African Catholic Church What you have is that uh after feeling that there is something missing in these streamline churches what they do is to turn to these other churches because some of the other churches offer a wide range of activities There are sports a lot of social activities what the other churches don't offer So what you have is an increasing number uh an increasing interest in religion but on the overall I would say that the interest is decreasing rather than increasing we have a smaller number of the youth in churches other than before

<$A> Well may be I should put this question to you If uh the youth are breaking away from you know from the churches to form their own uh sects doesn't that mean that their interest in religion is becoming more because they're turning off from where they feel they're dissatisfied and they're starting up where they think they're going to be satisfied

<$E> Well like I've said you've got also to look at the number of the youth who are actually in churches nowadays Well let's say we may have a small number of the youth in churches and then if they decide to get dissatisfied and break off into small groups You have to consider there are many other youth who are dropping actually from churches and going nowhere So you cannot say that on the overall the interest is increased but you can say that the interest has become more diversified for the people already in churches

<$A> Makhoha what would you tell us about that

<$C> I would not like to think that uh the youth are breaking away as such These break-away groups are led by people whom I believe are adults grown-up people who have their own interests in breaking up and that youth what the <-/>the youth merely do is to join up these groups The youth don't actually break away If the youth break away at all it is because they are going to join up some already formed uh sect or some sort of religion or they are completely divorcing themselves from religion completely I would not like to think that the increase of sects and other such religious groups is the result of youth deferring from what the general trend is

<$A> So you maintain that uh interest of the youth towards religion <-/>religion remains the same

<$C> It does not remain the same I would like to think that in fact it is decreasing The youth are tending to go away very much from religion uh especially because you know to some of them religion looks very irrelevant and it does not offer any excitement you know it looks like it's some barrier to them enjoying life in quotes of course Yeah and I would like also to think that they will they want to go away from religion because it is a restrictive yeah it keeps them curbed be it Islam be it uh Christianity It <-/>it stops them from doing things they really want to do They are like uh there's some church somewhere You are not allowed to have a girl-friend that would be a sin a thorough sin So in some way he sees now he is somewhere around eighteen twenty and he is he has got his sweetheart somewhere and he would like to <-/>to move around with her freely and here is a pastor who is stopping him from doing that uh he makes a choice and the choice normally is not very much to the benefit of uh religion

<$?> religion because we allow it

<$A> Kamau what will you say to that

<$B> Well I think I wouldn't quite agree with you on that point that uh Kenya you know in Kenya we're getting more and more denominations because actually Kenya has the largest number of religions or other denominations and the government has been quite reluctant on registering more groups So to me what is happening actually is that more people you know due to the explosion of the population people are getting excited and actually like what we are seeing in town It's not that new groups are coming In fact most of these groups I think are illegal according to the law because what happens that a person comes you know like the <-/>the Saved People He comes and you know he makes his own group like these people who are meeting at Jeevanjee You know what happens you know confusion There is this at this corner this group at this corner not actually that these groups are registered anywhere It's just because people feel I think it's caused by the frustrations in life you know in our life with the increasing problems like unemployment You know the youth are really out there to look for places to keep themselves going And I think what's happening is not that people are getting more close to religion but what people want is something to keep them busy They're frustrated they don't have jobs in the streets you cannot keep on you know if you 're begging for food you can only afford to beg you know for few hours and then for the rest of the time you're bored and you don't have a job so you've got to keep on looking excited all the time

<$A> Mkarasi what would you say to that

<$D> Uh what I have to say is that okay I agree that in Kenya there is an explosion of religions that's coming up A real explosion because okay as Makhoha has put it our population is really increasing And especially the youth who really want something which <-/>which can cater for our spiritual and material needs And we usually notice that the main churches really don't cater for both our spiritual and material needs at the same time So we find ourselves breaking out so that we find something at least a place where we can we can be accommodated spiritually and materially because if you join a sect which does not cater for your material needs I mean I just find that this is useless and that I just form their own church where I can collect some money and <-/>and have a good life at least yeah So that's why we have such an explosion we want to find somewhere where we can flee to

<$A> Absence of which will mean that you divorce yourself completely from religion

<$D> At times

<$A> Yes Nyongesa

<$E> Yeah it could be at times at all Uh we what we are all pointing out is that the interest is decreasing

<$A> is decreasing

<$E> rather than

<$A> Yeah maybe that maybe we should tackle that Uh do you think the youth now the number of youth in religion is it going down or is it going up for whatever reason whether I mean whether it is going up for any reason or coming down for any reason Is it going up or is it coming down

<$F> decreasing

<$A> It's decreasing for very many reasons

<$F> Yeah very many

<$A> Do you think promiscuity is a one of those reasons

<$F> Yeah to an extent yes

<$?> sexual promiscuity

<$?> Yeah let's just say promiscuity

<$A> Okay <./>let let's look at this other issue which I'm sure is really disturbing the minds of the youth Let's <-/>let's look at the cults uh something like devil worship is really you know is really eating through the minds of the <-/>the youth Now there is a feeling you know that the increasing number of cults is also boosted by the number of youth who are falling out of church

<$A> I mean what do you have to say to this Makhoha let's start with you

<$C> Well about these cults What I feel is that you know people when they are looking at religion first in the first place we should take at what people look in religion You know is it to put themselves right to God you know when you look at the youth today it's not because they want to put themselves in right with God whatsoever it is These people are frustrated people They have nothing to do and loathe doing nothing So they just want to get to church and forget about the misery which is which <-/>which they are living uh they are living in You see these cults they come about due to people who are hungry for money leadership what We found quite a number of them in town not to mention names and whatever You find that people who want to come up with their own cult They want to have their own uh codes of behaviour You know actually it deviates from the main the main line the Bible the way the Bible puts it You find that these cults they've got you know a <-/>a distinctive kind of mode of whatever and they wouldn't actually tell you the rest You know each cult has its own way of doing things It's not because it's the way it's been put by the Bible It's just because people want to have a group they want to some people are hungry of leadership So they want to make a living out of this you know lack of things in the absence of jobs and such things So people actually they are <./>look they are looking for means to <-/>to go about in life and that's how we're coming up with very many cults



S1B027K



<$A>with the rules of the society in which we lived in
and if uh in any way this person transgressed or contravened the laws of the of uh of the society then uh all manner of unpleasant things would be following Now there were very strict moral codes there were very strict codes of behaviour that had to be adhered to and uh there is no way that anyone would rise up in society to any position of prestige if they did not conduct themselves if they did not conduct themselves in a way that was becoming and even beyond that if they died and uh uh one thing that will one thing that we'll mention uh as we go along is that there was a very uh great importance attached to the spirits of dead people or in African tradition that's the so called ancestor If one who was of poor conduct and then even after they had died uh they would be they would not be held in a position of esteem so that even uh their after-life would be viewed upon uh it would be viewed uh with uh

<$B> you had a bad light

<$A> yeah but by the people left behind

<$B> by the people left behind

<$A> you would not have a situation where there was a tradition saying if <./>bec because your conduct was like this in life after death then you would go as the Christians would say or so the Judeo Christian tradition has it one would go to hell or anything of this sort Was there anything of that sort of tradition

<$B> No not as such because as we shall see later on people liked to come back into the world that they have been living to work out those problems that they've set into motion in their past lives but while we are still in this aspect of cause and effect where to place justice you all know very well that when the African child was born he was reminded continually both by precepts and by actions that he does not only belong to himself but he belongs to the whole community and therefore never ever should he ask his rights at the extent of the obligations or duties that he has towards the whole community and he was made to understand that whatever actions he set in motion will not only affect him but will also affect the rest of the community so much so that if someone had transgressed any of the laws of the community when they called in a diviner or a medicine man to come and exorcise him the whole community had also to undergo purification so that there will be no <./>calamit calamities to <-/>to break down the community in which he was living you know to blacken the community in which he was living and as a result of that he was reminded continuously whatever he does if it is good it will bring out a lot a benefit for the whole community and if it's bad it will bring out a lot of calamities in the community such as plagues which are almost incurable devastating of <-/>of farming because of drought and cyclones etcetera etcetera But this concept of cause and effect or due justice was not only confined to the social structure The African had also to relate with the natural environment in he lived in which he lived in For instance according to Zulus they said that it is only a silly bird that messes its nest meaning that if you destroy the natural environment in which you live in then of course you have messed the nest in which you are living And as a result of that the African was a great conserver or preserver of the <./>nat of the natural environment He could not destroy trees or animals in the jungle unnecessarily

For instance as a psychological device he would be told that if you go around killing animals in the name of sport as a punishment from the god you'll die of starvation one day or if you run around destroying trees unnecessarily as a punishment from the gods you'll be struck down by lightning and as a result of that lose your life Now these may sound as facetious but these psychological devices helped the African to maintain the natural environment that they lived in <./>in the right state and therefore not causing imbalance in the environment Even they believed that wind transports our thought for instance they will tell you that if you think wrongly or if you curse someone your thought will be transported by the Southern wind to its target and if you want to bless someone then the thoughts of blessing will be <./>transmor transported by the wind or from the north to <-/>to its targets or to its of course aim This indicating that he had not only to watch his actions physically but he had also to watch hiss thoughts and today we know that We are reminded by psychologists that there is a science of telepathy that your thoughts will find their way to the goal that you're aiming at so you have to watch your thoughts very very carefully That as you can see that the African knew that this law of cause and effect to produce justice was expected to help them to relate harmoniously with the social environment as well as the natural environment in which he lived in so he was a very very careful person He would never ask his rights at the expense of the obligation that he had toward the whole community

<$A> Was this law expected or taken to be immutable in the sense that uh it had consequences respective what you did Once you did the you took the wrong step there would be reverberations from that wrong step If you took the right step there would be therefore the <./>re the requisite reverberations from the right step

<$B> Yes and that is why all the time he was reminded of his obligations knowing that once the law had been set into motion there was no possibility of calling it back You had to go through the whole consequences and that's why I said the other role that it's not only that individuum who had to be exorcised or purified but the whole community had also to undergo the process of purification to ensure that there would be no calamities to overtaken the community to overtake the community and even the <-_offsprings><+_offspring> of that community

<$?> <-/>mhm

<$A> So there was a very great emphasis on communality and responsible collective responsibility for the actions of everybody

<$B> and everybody was very accountable for what he did

<$A> It's not a question of I'm not my brother's keeper No I am my brother's keeper

<$B> Yeah let's go on to the next of the basic concepts This is a question of Reba which a lot of Africans today think as very alien is <-/>is a hocus-pocus

<$A> Yea uh this is a concept that is held on to my very many African communities and uh it is believed in many African communities that once you die you do not depart altogether that the real person is survives death so to speak uh The real person is said to be a spirit and after die and after death the spirit joins the other ancestor spirits and waits for some future time to come back most likely within the same family So there's a threat uh there's a strong feeling that spirits uh survive uh the physical death as we know it and waits for some <./>fu future period to be to <-/>to get reborn and uh

<$?> uh

<$A> that is illustrated even in the <-/namings>

<$?> all the naming is that a

<$?> an indication that this was the reason why you're naming somebody after somebody who was earlier born before

<$?> Yes there is an expectation in many communities and uh that is why certain names uh are named that way uh very often after someone who had gone on uh <./>be before that so the expectation is that the new child that is coming into the family is <-/>is a previous member reborn

<$A> I want to tie this scene we're running out of time, Rubin I want to tie this scene to life after death the concept of life after death in the African tradition uh what was the concept?

<$?> Uh uh as a matter of fact just before we go to that we know for sure that for instance amongst the Yoruba of West Africa when a boy was born he was greeted as babatunde that father has come back If it was a girl she was greeted as Iantundi that's mother's come back And the Ghanaian would just greet a boy as abadios that means he has come back and among the Luos of Kenya we are taught that in certain communities when the mother is expecting a baby a few weeks before the baby is born a certain spiritual entity in dreams approaches the mother and gives a certain name to the child and when the child is born if that child is not given that name the child develops queer characteristics like crying incessantly or contracting diseases which are almost incurable until when a diviner is called in to detect what ancestor was to be born and if the mother now gives the name as was suggested in the dream by that spiritual entity then the boy of course or the child assumes the right state of life as far as good health is concerned and good characteristics suggesting that that ancestor now had been recognised as having coming back Even among the Lamba of Zambia who are Bantus by their tradition I was once talking to a teacher who said that his wife who was a graduate six weeks before giving birth her grandmother had approached to her approached her in dream and the grandmother gave her a name which was female and when the child was born it was female its in its gender That as you can see this idea of reincarnation is not strange to the African culture and the most important aspect of it is that since we believed that our relatives come back to life there was no possibility of great <-/impoverty> Everybody was looked upon as a relative and therefore he could he had to be helped whatever state he may be in this world so it had to go he had this implication of cementing the social structure for helping each other as such as such Now coming to this concept of life after death the Isanusi say that is the wise ones say that man is composed of a physical body a soul and a spirit and when the physical body died the soul or Ibilozi hovered around the physical body for some time and then after that it went into a isilueni A isilueni is a place where or the soul assumed both human and animal state temporarily in an invisible state and then after some time the animal form was dissolved and the Ibilozi went into another place where it underwent a lot of rest and a sleep for quite a long time until this soul or Ibilozi dreamt of a certain service and knowledge which he had not acquired in the world Then the soul would awaken from that blissful sleep come to a isilueni back in the physical body of a baby to get set in the mother's womb and help the birth of that child and develop that body and acquire certain knowledge and render service useful to mankind But you may ask this process of going in to the invisible world of the soul and coming out going to the physical world was it endless No after many <-/>many births and deaths when Ibilozi or the soul had rendered all the services required and had acquired all the knowledge required in the world When it left the physical body for the last time it became absorbed in the universal spirit namely Itongo and therefore did not have to be born again in the world Thus as you can see life after death was not a source of terror because everybody knew that when he died he will still come back into the world to render more service and to acquire new knowledge

<$A> This was in the African tradition?

<$B> This was in the African tradition and the name Ibilozi which means 'a song' and the name Itongo which means 'universal spirit' actually is derived from a very ancient Bantu language referred to as Izinzu and it is believed that from Isimsu all the African Bantu languages have their derivatives because these people or the wise ones of the ancient land of Africa had their schools scattered all over the continent and all of them were using the same language as far as spiritual teaching is concerned namely Izinzu

<$A> This incidentally sounds very uncommonly like the tradition in the east you know in the <-/>the far East in uh in the near East

<$?> Yes

<$B> uh gentlemen we are running out of time so uh can you do it

<$A> Yes there is some uh there is a very striking semblance with the traditions that are found elsewhere namely in the East In fact it is thought that uh that particular tradition among the Bantu uh or the proto-Bantus had something to do with uh with the wisdom of ancient Egypt and uh so that they had some common origin and uh it is well known that Egypt had uh achieved an extremely uh sophisticated level of civilisation uh at a very early age at uh quite a long time back and uh the achievements can or it can clearly be seen uh you know among the achievements such as the building of the pyramids that which was an extraordinary uh achievement by any standard uh and it's not only that in uh in the inner realms in the areas of spiritual development and metaphysics

<$B> Yes it's their I think their sophistication is not merely just on the material plane they were very sophisticated in matters of the spirit

Well thank you very much gentlemen I wish we had more time I think perhaps we'll have occasion to revisit the subject with more detail Viewers some of you may want to communicate with us follow some of these subjects not just this tonight's subject but other subjects that we have tackled of will be tackling You are quite welcome to write to the producer: Perspective PO Box three zero four five six Nairobi, the producer: Perspective PO Box three zero four five six Nairobi




S1B028K

<&_><$A> Justice Emanuel O' Kubasu, Chairman of the Kenya Law Commission

<$B> Female teacher

<$C> pupil

<$D> pupil

<$E> male

<$F> male

<$G> male



<$A> which we've been doing in secondary school is a completely different discipline Just for example for those who want to become doctors you must be good in mathematics chemistry physics biology Obviously you cannot be a doctor if you are not good in those subjects uh Then if uh you want to become a lawyer one thing you've got to be really bright indeed because uh the Law Faculty at the university uh takes only very few and because of that the point of entry uh the marks are rather high So that's why you need to score very high marks in order to get a place at the Law Faculty at uh your local university And then you don't need really to I cannot say you must be good in this subject or that but I think it will be appropriate to emphasise that that uh you should be very good in English uh good in geography good in history and uh and uh general knowledge So those are the subjects that you must really excel in

<$B> <-/>mhm

<$A> But I have also examples in fact some of uh some of them are my good friends My very close friend we were once schooled together here in Nairobi and I <-/>I went to do arts that's why I took English history and geography and religious knowledge and this friend of mine took mathematics chemistry and physics and he decided also to do law and is a very successful lawyer because law is complete different discipline as you go to university So you need to do well uh in all those subjects and then when you come to when you go to university you'll be introduced to a new discipline and it'll be very interesting for those of you who are interested and I'm sure you will not find it very difficult if you are really serious uh in concentrating on your work as I'm sure you are

<$B> Do <-/>do <-/>do <-/>do you have to be a person who likes to read a lot

<$A> Oh in fact you've got to be a person who reads a lot because law involves a lot of reading

<$B> <-/>mhm yes

<$A> Uh you cannot uh be a successful lawyer if you are lazy in reading

<$B> There you are those of you who don't like your books <&/>laughter You'd better start pulling up your socks Any more questions related to law as a career You know uh if you got any questions related to what you would like <./>wh what kind of person you are supposed to be if you going to be a lawyer yes

<$C> Your Lordship who should educate the people who should educate the people of <-/>of their rights and privileges

<$A> <-/>mhm okay that is a bit off but it's okay

<$B> No it's all right <&/>speaking at the same time

<$?> question

<$A> Yes in fact this programme is part of an answer to your question so in fact the government is doing this through programme like this one So what we are doing here now we are talking to you and other members of the public who are watching this programme are also learning something about law I hope next time a doctor will come
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