Forum for Understanding: Science (Discussion about medicine and culture)




НазваниеForum for Understanding: Science (Discussion about medicine and culture)
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<$A> And desirous to who I think that is the question that uh <&/>laughter because of course structural adjustment talk as Musalia is saying especially saying here is that these people have sat down they've analysed the situation for us They <-/>they it's not that they <-/>they <-/>they necessarily understand it but they think that uh in our <-_>in our<-/> place in our in Europe in America these programmes have worked so they should also be <-/>be able to work in a in a different situation which is not logical in for uh when you are dealing with cultures So the question is do the prescription the cure we want or the cure the international monetary found is prescribing Is it what it is or is it is it the desirous effect they say that uh the programmes will bring in the long run We don't know how long that will take Is it what we'd desire or is it what they would desire themselves

<$C> One thing I would think that this medicine uh you know is actually certainly a bitter pill and this bitter pill is being uh forced down uh our throats and uh given that the they have not tested that the efficacy of uh the <-/>the <-/>the <-/>the drug itself you see we are being used as guinea-pigs you see and uh that is uh to our detriment because you don't know the You know when a drug is manufactured you have to get some uh animals rats and then test it on those and see if it's effective in the in some ways or the other but you see here we are now being used as that and the desired effects could even be a negative

<$A> Yeah if you looked at it the way those structural adjustment programmes are affecting our education Basically you know education has been used as an investment by African parents for quite some time now There's that belief that if your <-/>your son or daughter is educated the rest of the family benefits from this education but if you look at it now the <-/>the <-/>the effects are <-/>are looking more drastic To take your child to the university currently it's <-/>it's traumatic You have to struggle with almost everybody The money is not just there through you know they believe you that people have to pay money a lot of it in fact in the concept of cost sharing to get educated But if you look at it now how it will affect the family if a child is capable of going to school and passes and is not able the parents can no longer afford to take him to university this child most <-/>most likely he'll become a rebel which could have another double effect in the family itself It could even lead the break-up of the family because one party might think I'm I am not being educated because of this and that but the truth is that the parents are not able to meet the cost

<$?> the cost Yeah that is a well so we can see already that at that point of course the family is disintegrating Because if the <-/>the child ends up rebelling against the

<$?> yes

<$?> the family of course he may not understand the kind of problems <-/>problems the family is operating within

<$?> I think if we can say these are just the labour pains so the final child is still to be born I mean the <-/>the disintegration uh is still to come but as for now

<$?> those are the indications

<$?> those are the indicators the <-/indicaties> the indications that all is not well with our family in the face of this structural adjustment

<$A> That is as for now

<$?> as for now because

<$?> we don't know about tomorrow

<$?> because well you never know maybe the desirous effect is going to take effect from tomorrow you never know

<$?> you never know

<$?> a reversal effect in fact but which we're not sure that reversal effect is going to be felt

<$?> Well I think well nevertheless we are saying that at that point of course we can still we can we're already seeing the symptoms of disintegration at the at the level of the family where children may turn against parents where parents in fact may <-/>may may become apathetic well what's the use of Because you see structural adjustment well regardless of the level of education you see the other economic side effects the <-/>the like uh when we talk about employment and you find that uh even with this education you may not end up getting a job and the parents who have invested as you <-/>you said who have invested on in the child hoping that some day he'll get a job and then bail out the family from these difficulties Now if they start noticing that even education is no guarantee to <-/>to a job or to security for the for the for the <./>fam for the youth himself leave alone the whole family you <-/>you may find where the parents may become apathetic where they <-/>they may just say now this is a is a is a bad investment anyway so that they divert money which maybe might have gone to education into other more profitable investments Well I don't know

<$?> Yeah that's basically what <-/>what might happen in future Now that's what sub is what the subprogram is medicating for us could is not having these desirable results The most probable thing is that they'll be a re-channelling of efforts to other areas by the family The family'll no longer concentrate on what it's being told to do because already what it's being told to do is not being helpful

<$?> if anything if you look at it also in the light of uh maybe the family itself in terms of you know there are basic there are those very very very basic uh needs say for example food I mean you not send your child to school uh to pay all those thousands of shillings when the family and the rest of the brothers and sisters of that person

<$?> are starving

<$?> are starving at home So definitely this particular this scarce resource actually we are talking about the reallocation of these scarce resources from things like education uh uh When you come to medical uh facilities uh a reverting to the bush I mean looking for roots to cure some of these early ailments So actually what we are talking about is a re-substitution of these particular resources to other products other which may not be productive anyway

<$?> Yeah it might be

<$?> but promote basic needs

<$?> more basic needs

<$?> I mean you cannot take your child to school when people are walking naked

<$A> Okay well I would like to go back Musalia to the point you raised earlier about the for example the level of marriage where you find that uh today a lot of young people just meet up and uh they decide to elope and go and live together forget about their parents extended family and all that Well at this point we <-/>we are talking about the disintegration of course the disintegration of the extended family unit as the extended family as a system has been going on but now you find that with the structural adjustment it is been accelerated so that you find the uh as you say the <-/>the these young people meet here and they decide we don't have to bother to bother with the <-/>the parents with the because they already complicate an already very difficult situation and <-/>and you find that the parents who may not understand the <-/>the kind of tensions this family is suffering this well potential family is suffering may <-/>may <-/>may take <-_>may take<-/> it against them and you find that even against each other So that you find that uh they are not on talking terms because uh the rapport is only established when you come round a negotiation table

<$B> You see one thing <&/>laughter you must realise Mister Goro is that these structural adjustment are being felt I mean they have taken effect So when these two young people come together they meet You see if you'd go to the parent I'm not talking in terms that I've I'm already doing that But if these people will not you know by going to their parent you know the parent is also feeling the structural adjustment effects So to cushion himself from the structural adjustment effects he'll have now to bring it into it brideprice fee Then that will have an effect of inflating the brideprice because the old man and the old lady they want to cushion themselves against structural adjustment effects

<$A> But perhaps that could also be looked at as the dwindling authority of the parents which they have being subjected to by the structural adjustment programmes I know now that the son or the daughter could be the person who matters could be at that particular point earning more money than any other member of the family He becomes or she becomes rebellious and when she elopes with the <-/>the man or when he elopes with another daughter they don't seek any parental authority to sanctify the whole the whole affair They go it their own way I would look at it from such a perspective

<$B> Yeah that is in fact what we <-/>we are talking about the undermining of the family unit because if <-/>if now parental authority is being is dwindling is in fact well we may not we maybe talking of non-existence of the authority for example for the father over the sons and daughters They may not in fact in most cases refer to him because well he comes from a cultural another background which is not theirs and which may and the generation gap which may complicate the way they relate he understands the <-/>the kind of situation the children now are operating in and in order not to complicate things they may just decide to <-/>to leave him out of the picture and I think I fear this is what is happening in a lot of cases

<$A> Of course it's happening I mean it's here with us and uh the symptoms those particular symptoms are exemplified also in the uh state of even the families You see these families don't also have some basis So you'll find that after these uh young people have come together they also don't go visiting their parents All the resources they have been sending to the parents also dwindle go with that I mean they have to support themselves So they cut off all the links with their parents and as it stands right now parents are losing power over their children at a very high rate

<$C> Yeah that's the way it is because though people have been saying it's the extended family that is that has been seem to be breaking up but now we are narrowing to the <-/>the nuclear family where now the parental authority can no longer be felt The sons are the sons and daughters are more often independent of that parental authority What <-/>what can parents do to such sons after all parents don't have the necessary the necessary resources to use as a punitive measure against the children instead it's the opposite

<$?> But you'll find also Mister Espisu that there is also a power the power is also there is an inversion of power so that you'll find parents are no longer having any power over their parents over their children but to some extent you'll find their children who have uh maybe who have wealth or who are well-put I mean they're having some powers over their parents

<$C> That's <-/>that's that's very true <&/>laughter Quite <-/>quite a number of children are dominating their parents which should not be the case But it's the case

<$?> But I think what you what we are coming to is that what matters now is not uh your authority as a father is not age or anything I think is the <-/>the <-/>the economic resources you <-/>you are able to <-/>to command That's what puts you at the head of the family so that you find in fact in a lot of families if <-/>if your younger brother is economically more viable than you are you are you are you are threatened Because now the old man will listen to your brother not to you because he's the only person who can sit down and plan maybe projects for the family things like that So if you if you have nothing to say economically then you have no business being seen around

<$?> Yeah that's the seniority by age which has been looked at culturally as very important is breaking up fast Seniority is no longer by age as you can all attest to it Age no longer determines anything

<$?> Well I think uh the <-/>the well we can <-_>we can<-/> in fact extend the discussion now to okay to the <-/>the way the <-/>the parents for example react to this kind of erosion of the authority we can we can maybe speculate a little bit on that

<$?> Of course they are not just sitting there and I mean liking the whole scene you see They are grappling They are trying to restore their power but I think things are moving too fast for them So that the power they held is no longer uh there

<$A> And on that note listener we come to the end of this week's edition of Forum for Understanding in which we discussed the family unit in a changing society With us in the studio were John Musalia Ezekiel Espisu On behalf of the programmes producer George Okode This is Goro Kamau saying goodbye <&/>music>




S1B036K

<&_> Press Conference

<$A> presenter

<$B> minister

<$C> Harold Norton (American)

<$D> H. Mandalo

<$E> Johnson Gakongo

<$F> Emman Omari



<$A> Good evening viewers and welcome to our programme press conference In tonight's programme we shall discuss the World Food Day and our guests are honourable minister for agriculture livestock development and marketing Welcome to the programme

<$B> Good evening viewers

<$A> We also have Mr Harold Norton the food and agriculture organisation representative in Kenya welcome

<$C> Thank you Good evening viewers


<$A> Our panelists are Mr /> Mandalo on the far right from Standard Newspapers

<$D> Hello viewers

<$A> Mr Johnson Gakongo from Kenya Times

<$E> Good evening everyone

<$A> And Mr Emman Omari from Nation Newspapers

<$F> Good evening viewers

<$A> to start off Mr Norton I would like you to maybe tell us uh since nineteen eighty nine to the present it looks like the food production has dropped globally by about eight per cent uh What are your global perspective <&/>grammar of food production in the future

<$C> Food production in the world has had its uh difficulties ups and downs if we might call it due to a variety of factors one of those has been drought another has been floods Other areas have been affected by different types of conditions this has contributed to a world-wide decline in total grain production in nineteen ninety-two and prospects for nineteen ninety three indicate that there may be a similar trend for production however I will say that stock-levels in most of the major producing countries are high enough to take care of any needs there would be for these countries


<$A> uh uh Mr <-/>Mr Norton before we come to the minister I think the criticism that your organisation has faced over a period of time unlike uh <+_the> World Health Organisation is that you have no back-up uh to your reports You seem to produce reports more often than you seem to go out there to initiate programmes for food production Now what specific programmes do you have uh in the so-called the deficit food countries uh such as Kenya and uh Africa at large particularly your initiative You <-/>you have no initiative in food production you seem to write only reports

<$C> We your statement is uh maybe a little uh obscure Let me explain why We had a case in which in from Cape town to Cairo there was a major drought that took place in East Africa That drought was quite severe Kenya was one of those countries that was affected by that drought The FAO sent teams into the field to each of these countries to assess the crop situation and to look at what the prospects were for the food supply for these countries FAO then compiled all that information and put it together in a report and the report showed that there was a need for some fifteen million metric tons of food grains to be imported uh in nineteen ninety-two and early nineteen ninety-three That was followed by a follow-up evaluation that was done in selected countries where there were <./>f repeated problems of drought and related situations and uh be that Kenya is one of those countries and at the request of the government of the ministry the minister and the ministry we have helped to uh with working with the various officials to look at the crop situation and to assess the food-supply situation for <-/>for the country That will be included as part of our total assessment of the crop situation in uh <-/>in East Africa


<$A> uh Minister as we gear ourselves to celebrating the World Food Day there seems to be a serious state of affairs in our country in terms of food Now for the last three to four years there's been a decline in food production Now this situation has deteriorated to an extent that we now import maize and sugar from Uganda a country that the other day was involved in a lot of <./>m conflicts and so forth and so on Kenya having not undergone that kind of political change what is the explanation that we give to this uh food problem

<$B> uh Thank you Firstly let me correct the impression you have that uh Kenya is importing sugar from Uganda That is not correct but we are aware that uh Kenya is informally uh importing maize from Uganda and it is true that uh the country for the last three years has uh been having <&/>grammar uh <./>redi <./>di reduced production particularly in the area of maize uh and other cereals uh The main reasons really for this apart from uh the weather conditions are that the farmer has uh become more and more commercially minded The farmer uh does not want to invest in any agricultural activity if he he thinks he is not going to get adequate return and uh quite clearly uh the farmer has been finding it very difficult to produce a grain at the price that has been in existence particularly when you <./tuk> take into account the high costs of production the high costs of inputs and uh other herbicides and uh that <./>i is why we have eh recently as a government made fairly substantive adjustment uh in price to the producer so that the farmer can see that it is worthwhile producing the maize Otherwise if he thinks he's not going to get good return from maize he would grow something else which would give him uh better return and that is uh actually what has been the trend uh in the recent years

<$A> Mr minister what assurance can you give to the viewers that Kenya in the next few years will not be importing maize will not be importing sugar because when you were appointed as a minister you went round the sugar growing areas and uh you must have come out with a report Why should you continue importing sugar Why <./>do should Kenyans line up for sugar

<$B> Well uh Kenyans will line up for sugar because uh they are consuming more sugar than what is being produced It's as simple as that but uh uh the the reality of the matter is this that uh we have to find ways and means of uh creating incentives to the farmer to produce uh more uh cane he only produces more cane and that is processed into sugar then you'll have adequate sugar but uh you refer to my recent tours uh to sugar growing areas After that I did get in touch with uh technical officers here I did also get in touch with uh friends abroad We did bring in uh <-_some><+_a> research team from Australia on sugar They have gone round the country to identify additional areas where a cane can grow well so that uh we add uh more acreage uh on sugar cane so that we can produce more sugar and uh uh probably uh I'm going a little uh too <-/>too far in in informing you that we have identified other areas than the traditionally known cane growing areas Particularly the Tana belt the Tana basin uh has been identified as an other area where uh a lot of sugar cane can be grown So we are actually having certain ideas on how to increase uh the sugar production but thi s will depend very much on uh uh the availability of funds

<$A> Mr minister uh one wonders whether the government has uh a food policy for the immediate and the <-/>the future uh of this country By policy I would like you to consider the fact that uh from nineteen sixty three when we had eight million people to nineteen ninety three when we had twenty-four million the government cannot pretend that it can subsidise some food uh uh aspects uh and then the land use You have subdivided literally every uh bloc farming the <-/>the big scale farming into small little shambas uh What is the policy on <-/>on the <-_>on the<-/> <-_>on the<-/> master plan on food production

<$B> I think uh the first thing I think I <-/>I need to emphasise here is this that subdivision of land is not a factor in uh reducing the uh food production In fact in those areas where we used to have large scale farming if you look at the production during those years when there were some largescale farms and the production now The production now is higher than what it used to be in <+_article> majority of cases I would not say the same thing when it comes to wheat production uh but in the case of maize and milk uh the subdivision of land has not created the deficit You talk about policy Yes the government has uh always got a policy on uh what to do uh regarding feeding the nation and uh as you're aware we did a have a food policy and a food security uh document which was uh approved by government and parliament in nineteen eighty-one We have been uh using that as a document Then there was uh the a sessional paper which was produced in nineteen eighty-six by the ministry of economic planning That uh <./>wen went through parliament We have been using that as uh a document to support the nineteen eighty-one food policy and uh right now we are uh reviewing the whole of the nineteen eighty-one policy uh taking into account some of the decisions taken under the policy of nineteen eighty-six and soon we will be tabling in parliament the new policy on food production in this country

<$A> Well minister I'm sorry to give you a lot of questions than your counterpart <&/>grammar but uh we <-/>we have a problem in this country because we know that uh the majority of food producers are small scale farmers Now there's a case where small scale farmers have not been able to get fertilisers In fact I would say that ninety percent of small scale farmers grow their food crops without using fertiliser and if we are saying that they're the majority producers then something should be done about it Is your ministry having any deliberate measures <&/>grammar to afford small scale farmers who are peasant actually farmers They can't afford the exorbitant rates we <-/>we <-/>we have fixed on fertilisers Is there a deliberate move by your ministry to afford these farmers fertilisers so that food can be produced in this country Secondly are you <&/> backround noise <-_>are you<-/> convinced that extension officers from your ministry are doing a good job to advise <&/>structure the farmers on better ways of of uh farming methods

<$B> Thank you um to answer the first one I would uh like to say yes I think we are all concerned about uh the distribution of the inputs uh to the small scale farmers and uh indeed one of the things that has made small scale farmers not to use <&/>structure all the inputs that are necessary for food production is uh <./>f first there hasn't been <+_a> very good distribution system uh Many of the people who were supposed to be distributors the middlemen uh some of them are far away from the farmer They have no means of having access to the ordinary small farmer in the country side let's say in Kahadscha uh where maize is grown We also know that the in this country we have been using too many middlemen When you get the fertiliser for example or herbicides from a factory overseas then it comes through an importer That importer has <-_an><+_a> wholesaler who also takes his commission Then there is another distributor who takes some commission Then there is a the retailer who takes another commission Now all these people having taken their commissions that commission plus the original cost is added to the price of fertiliser and therefore the farmer finds it a little bit too high the price to pay and therefore he's reluctant to use it because it is too costly Now you must have heard uh recently in some of my statements that we are organising the farmers organisations either through co-operatives that they are assisted uh either through uh organisations like <./>A AFC or <./>o the <./>agricult the co-operative bank to get funds so that they have uh they arrange for direct import of the fertiliser which then moves straight on to the farmer directly and that is being done uh very successfully already by the Muranga co-operative union and we think if thi s is done in the case of maize in other areas the cost of production could be reduced substantially

<$A> Mr Nijai to uh

<$B> uh I have not answered the second one

<$A> <./>exten extension of staff

<$B> on extension of staff uh I want to uh uh confirm to you that uh your concern regarding the extension service is our concern in the ministry and indeed it is true that our extension staff have not been as mobile as they should be and we are <./>ge getting them now uh to organise uh <./>stree <./>sp <./>spe specific programmes which must be monitored by the district agricultural officers so that the farmers are constantly in touch with this extension staff for technical assistance uh both in the livestock area as well as uh the crop area and uh we think with uh that uh encouraged interaction between the farmers and the extension staff it will give the farmers also more knowledge on uh modern farming and I think they will also feel that they <-/>they <-/>they <-/>they are being supported uh through advice

<$A> Mr Nijai uh to move away a bit from uh from maize and sugar production let's go maybe to meat Kenyans <./>a also consume meat Are <-/>are the artificial insemination services still there and what is happening there in the meat commission

<$B> First uh in the case of artificial insemination That is a programme which is worrying us in the ministry a great deal right now This programme uh used to have external support and uh that external support has actually dwindled It is uh getting less and less and uh uh in fact there are signals that the programme that used to exist may end towards the end of this year uh but we are working out some other arrangements uh in order to boost the performance of the artificial insemination This is an area we cannot afford o allow to uh <./>rit uh deteriorate uh If it <./>deter deteriorates you can rest assured you will have milk shortage in another few years in this country Therefore it is a programme that we have to support and uh while talking about this I must say that <./>th there are so many people in Kenya here who seem to take it for granted that that uh myth of uh privatisation can uh actually work in <./>every <-/>in everything because even uh right now there are a lot of people including you journalists uh who write about privatisation of the AI privatisation of uh food distribution and the rest of it without going into details how can this be done For example how do you do privatisation of the AI without working it out very carefully and establishing units of private people who can do the work I mean it's not just a question of changeover like uh playing football and if one has uh a injured leg and then you bring him the result It doesn't work that way so I <-/>I think that needs to be watched very carefully and that is why I some people may have seen that I have some degree of reluctance in uh this so-called privatisation I have to do it in a systematic way so that <&/>end of first side of tape

<$F> to eat fish from uh lake Victoria because of pollution
What measures are being taken to curb this situation and protect the marine life in that lake

<$B> Well I will not be able to talk in details <&/>idiom about uh the fish industry as such because uh it doesn't really come under my portfolio but I'd like to assure you as a minister of the Kenya government that uh this is a matter which I know is being looked into very carefully The marine research people have already uh pointed out some of these things and eh I am pretty clear in my own mind and I'm aware that uh measures are being taken to make sure that eh pollution is avoided

<$A> but Mr minister

<$B> Had we finished the KMC

<$?> No just the financial problems

<$B> Yes the KMC has financial problems uh not only for operational purposes but the KMC is extremely old and uh we are uh right now uh very keen to do uh a rehabilitation of both KMC here and the KMC in Mombasa uh and for your information as we are talking there is uh a rehabilitation going on with regard to the coming section of the KMC in Another thing that we are doing is to encourage establishment of slaughter houses in the beef producing areas so that uh we can avoid walking animals long distances By the time they reach KMC they are really emaciated animals We would rather slaughter them at uh the point of supply uh and then move uh the meat under cold storage to the markets

<$A> Mr Norton uh from the discussions we have had here it looks like you have an overview of the problems we have in this country right away I don't know what your organisation is doing to assist the ministry of agriculture <+_to> overcome some of these problems

<$C> We have quite a variety of programmes it's not only with the ministry of agriculture but environment and uh water fisheries We have quite a few and our programmes are designed to work with the small and medium size farmers to help them to improve or increase their production and to find new ways and new techniques For example the World Food Day uh programme is called harvesting nature's diversity in which it talks about bringing in diversity activities to bring in new genetic materials The research people here are utilizing this diversity nature's diversity to come up with new and improved ways of increasing agriculture livestock and other crop and food production We have uh <-_>we have<-/> uh brought about this through cooperative programmes with the various ministries and funded by international and donor organisations We are continuing to do that right up to today and we're also talking about plans for the future

<$A> Mr minister uh let me ask you this question uh Who is the chairman of KTT and what is happening in KTT As we are talking here they're meeting in some boardroom somewhere

<$B> <&/>laughter The chairman of KTT is uh Mr Imanyara uh who has uh for the last uh few years he has been the chairman and he still remains the chairman Mr Imanyara

<<$?> When is <-_>when is<-/> a tea bonus likely to

<$B> <&/>laughter That is a decision of the board They are the ones who decide when the tea bonus is to be paid but traditionally it has always been towards the end of the year

<$F> Mr minister we are talking about the world food day and uh we are supposed to celebrate the day and uh Kenya is said to be one of the twenty poorest countries which will be in dire need of food international relief assistance in terms of food by next year what really are we you know celebrating What's your assessment of the food situation in the country and are we self-reliant because thi s is quite an alarming report

<$B> Well I <-/>I am uh not uh quite clear about uh uh the <-/>the <-/>the phrase celebrating uh but we are uh gathering on this particular day to create awareness of what needs to be done to enhance the food production That is the main theme uh We are aware that we are faced with the food shortages and therefore what do we do to enhance food production in order to eh create uh sufficiency in uh the countries that are faced with food shortage

<$?> Just to follow up Mr minister what are the plans that you've laid down such that when we celebrate this day that farmer we are talking about who is supposed to get to know the new techniques will be involved Or have we any plans in the village level location or something like that

<$B> Well we have always got plans uh on the food production uh and uh I think uh one thing which uh I am emphasising is the involvement of the district agricultural committees uh also the district agricultural committees at the <./>lo sub-locational level uh the provincial agricultural board and we have also revived the central agricultural board which has not been in existence for uh the last few years for the purpose of advising the government on what the farmers' feelings are on farming policies In other words uh we now have established a machinery called central agricultural board which is attended by farmers mainly to advise the government on what needs to be done in agriculture


S1B037K

<&_><$A> Loise Wamyoike

<$B> Josephine Sinyo

<$C> James Mwaura

<$D> Lucy Mandera

<$E> Mrs Anastasia Mwangi



<$A> Good Evening and welcome to Radio Press Conference! The Kenya Society for the Blind will be holding a national women’s workshop on awareness and sensitisation from Monday next week In Press Conference today we’ll be discussing the situation of a blind woman Our guests are Josephine Sinyo a senior State Counsel at the Attorney-General’s Office and she is accompanied to our studios by Lucy Mandera a telephone operator with an international company here in Nairobi and Mrs Anastasia Mwangi who is a rehabilitation officer Women and Family Support Programme at the Kenya Society for the Blind

With me at the panel is

<$C> James Mwaura

<$A> and I am Loise Wamyoike
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